Wait, Tesla Owners And Fans Don't Care So Much About Green?

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2012 Tesla Model S

2012 Tesla Model S

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It's dangerous to assume, as the saying goes.

And a lot of assumptions about why people buy electric cars are wrong--including that they only do so because they're "green," meaning to help the environment.

Now a new attitudinal survey shows this isn't much true for Tesla owners and fans.

A study by Gravity.com (via AutoblogGreen) compared and contrasted Toyota Prius hybrid owners and followers to those for the Tesla Model S.

Just not so green?

The Prius people, it said, are "keenly interested in Eco-friendly subject matters and Social Change."

The Tesla folks? Here's what Gravity.com said:

Environmentalism is not a substantial area of interest in the Tesla Model S Interest Graph.  This may indicate that Tesla interest is driven by the technological or aspirational aspects of the brand rather than it’s [sic] environmental benefits.  

This is supported by the fact that, while the Tesla audience is 8.5 times more likely to be interested in fuel efficiency than the general population, Prius fans are 4x more likely to be interested than the Tesla folks (34x general population)

Many motivations

This only reinforces the point that there are several different motivations to buy a plug-in electric car, among them early adoption of new technology, energy security, and lifetime cost of ownership.

Yes, there's the green thing too--but it's far from the only motivation.

We'd like to see more data on Tesla Model S buyers as the car spreads beyond its Silicon Valley stronghold.

Meanwhile, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk underscored the point yesterday, on a call following yesterday's Tesla earnings report.

In response to an analyst's question about the luxury sedan sector, he discussed the variety of trade-ins and cars replaced by the Model S.

From Odyssey to...Model S?

Musk pointed out that no single car model represented more than 10 or 11 percent of the vehicles replaced when buyers opted for the Model S.

While "premium sedans and hybrids are the big ones," they're far from the only models.

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, production version road test, San Diego, CA, Jan 2012

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, production version road test, San Diego, CA, Jan 2012

Enlarge Photo

You might have expected the Toyota Prius to dominate, or at least represent up to half the total--as it did, for example, among Nissan leaf intenders.

Not so.

The Prius was only 10 percent or so of the total, followed by the Mercedes-Benz E-Class (a mid-size luxury sedan) and the Nissan Leaf (a compact electric hatchback).

Then there were several unexpected vehicles: The Honda Odyssey minivan, Volvo XC90 large sport-utility vehicle, and Volkswagen Jetta compact sedan each represented 4 percent of trade-ins, followed by the Honda Civic compact sedan at 3 percent.

It's an "incredibly wide variety of cars traded in for the Model S, Musk said, and specifically "not just large luxury sedans."

In other words, remember what happens when you assume.

[hat tip: Brian Henderson]

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Comments (90)
  1. As a Tesla S owner, my chief interest was decreasing dependence on foreign oil more than being "green". That also seems to be the main factor in other people that I have talked to about the Tesla.

  2. getting off oil is green, as far as i am concerned

  3. "decreasing dependence on [foreign] oil"

    You missed a word, system analyst...

  4. For us it was getting off of any oil--foreign or domestic. Now we drive only electric vehicles (not hybrids) that are fueled by solar panels. We are never going back!

  5. thanks darrell

  6. Xiaolong drives a hybrid, BURN!!!

  7. @Randy Hamlet,

    What I drive has nothing to do with my comment.

    I simpily pointed out a "missing word" from original commenter.

    Even people who drive hybrid are those who want to reduce oil usage.

    Your statement has shown you are nothing more than a BEV elistist or snob.

  8. There are more comments in this thread
  9. How does it only apply to foreign oil? Unless Brain lives in Hawaii or Alaska, the car will not run on any oil products.

  10. Canada is the largest foreign oil supplier to United States.

  11. That is irrelevant, oil is not used to generate electricity at any significant rate in any state other than Hawaii or Alaska, unless you live on an oil refinery. That was my point.

  12. But...as we pulled into the Fort Worth hazardous waste drop-off center (where you can offload unused household chemicals, dead fluorescent bulbs, etc., for recycling and proper disposal) the other day, there in front of us was a Model S, its owner going to the trouble to do the right thing.

  13. OK odd coincidence here. I used my Model S to take household chemicals and old fluorescent light bulbs to the county hazardous waste drop-off center the day after I brought the car home. This was in California, not Fort Worth.

    The attendant at the drop-off center was very complementary about the car, said it was the nicest car he's seen there. ;-)

    This was part of cleaning out the garage to make room for the Model S.

  14. There's a lot going for the Model S. Perhaps a great deal more than the compact and subcompact EVs. I've got a Honda Odyssey--and I'd gladly trade it in for the Model S if I had the cash to make up the difference! But the fact that folks are willing to part with all variety of vehicles tells an interesting story--the market for the Tesla car is most likely more diverse than we might expect.

  15. Ah lies, damn lies, and statistics.

    Tesla folks are 8.5 time more interested in fuel economy than the average person yet the article claims there is not much interest in Green. Does not make any sense.

    Oh, I see, it only makes sense when comparing them to the Prius people who cannot possibly justify their purchase by saying they are interested in acceleration, so they say they are interested in fuel economy.

    As always, you CANNOT determine customer's interests by asking them. It does not work. Review the failures of "conjoint analysis".

    But hey we can always pretend this is real data. It has numbers after all.

  16. I'm a liberal, and I just bought a Chevy Volt, but not because it was green. The green part was a factor, but not the one that motivated me to drop 40 large.

    I bought it because it's electric, fun to drive, doesn't depend on foreign oil, is a giant gadget, and also because it's green.

    Driving it around, I don't feel like I'm saving the planet, I felt that way driving my 15 year old Camry, after all, any new car drains resources and puts a burden on the environment. I feel like I'm championing the future of automotive technology, as well as wresting control of that future out of the hands of oil companies. THAT is why I bought electric.

  17. Exactly, keep your current high mpg gas or "hybrid" car such as Prius going is still more green than go out and buy a brand new BEV.

  18. Unless your used Prius replaces someone else's gas guzzler... Tesla technology trickles down in a variety of ways...

    I plan to replace my Prius with a Tesla that'll be fueled by my solar panels, and consider it an environmentally favorable move.

  19. It is. But there is very little benefit if you trade in your 2 yr old Prius for a Tesla S.

    But if the Prius got 200,000 miles and is over 13 year old, then you trade it in for a Model S, then it is benefitial.

  20. Well, sense that prius puts out 56250 pounds of CO2 over 6 years and 90k miles, I don't see how a car that puts out zero emissions is somehow "not much better". He wont just crush the car, even if I buy a new car every year, barely better than the last, it is better. The other car gets old and someone else gets better milage.

  21. Dude, it's not like Joe's old Prius is going to the boneyard. He will sell it to some other driver who will retire a less efficient vehicle who will then drive until it gets too expensive to maintain.

    So not only does Joe replace his Prius with something which is likely to be cleaner than his Prius, someone else will replace their stinker with Joe's clean Prius.

  22. Randy Hamlet,

    There are lots of thing to learn for "younger" EV fans like you.

    Whether Prius is better than an EV or not is heavily depending on the source of your electricity and where you live.

    In a heavily coaled based state, Prius actually produces less CO2 than a BEV like your Leaf. In states such as Pacific NW or CA, it is far greener to drive an EV. And you have the choices to installing solar to offset your emission where Prius can't.

    But you shouldn't just make blank statement without stating the condition. I am saying this b/c EV community needs calm mind, not fan boy extremist. I don't even like Prius.

  23. Mittar, It is not electric, it is a plug in hybrid.

    Xialong, a Prius is not more green than a BEV, even where I live, 100% coal. How could a hybrid, like yours, be greener than an electric, even if it plugs in..?

  24. @Randy Hamlet,

    You are telling me that if your Leaf is powered by 100% coal and it will generate less emission than a hybrid such as Prius?

    You are about as "naive" as it comes....

  25. Studies have busted this myth Xialong, numerous studies (just google it) have shown that even from the dirtiest sources, plug in electric is cleaner than a hybrid, if only marginally.

  26. BTW, try to keep these discussions insult free, they just make it more difficult to actually debate.

  27. @Mittar Khalsa,

    "Studies have busted this myth Xialong, numerous studies (just google it) have shown that even from the dirtiest sources, plug in electric is cleaner than a hybrid, if only marginally. "

    I believe various GCR article has covered this already. And my links are also there.

    Most studies has shown that on "average" an EV is better than most ICE cars out there. "hybrids" such as Prius can be better or worse in terms of CO2 emission depending on the % of coal based electricity.

    In at least 15 states of the US, EVs are definitely better. And EVs allow you to offset your electricity by installing solar which I have done. But making a "blank statement" is incorrect.

  28. There are more comments in this thread
  29. I call it electric, because that's how I tend to drive it. I rarely use gas. And I'm lumping myself in with Tesla owners because the only reason I got a Volt instead of a Tesla was the price.

  30. BEV elitist will NEVER agree with you on that. Although I agree with you.

  31. How am I a BEV elitist? Sorry I think your silly Volt is silly. It is a plug in hybrid, by definition. The Volt is a compromise car that makes no sense for most people. It is only a good transition vehicle for those too scared to go all electric. If you drive so much that you cant use a normal EV, you need a TDI or a Prius anyway. There are very few people who need a Volt.

  32. BEV elitist are those who thinks a limited BEV is the ONLY EV solution to the world. Anyone else who drives anything else is wrong or stupid who should change their rides to the substandard limited range BEV.

    In my situation, BEV like Volt is the best saving. My daily commute are electric only charging on solar at home and work. However, once per week, I need to make a 200 miles trip that none of the BEV under $50k can make in a reasonable time for commute. So, Volt is the best fit. Prius or TDI would have used more fuel and generate more pollution.

    Your attitude toward PHEV is what makes you a BEV Elitist.

  33. ever heard of dewey versus truman ?

  34. I bought a Model S because I needed a new car. After doing the math over the long ownership that I generally keep. The Model S made sense and I no longer had to give 10's of thousands of dollars to oil companies for whom we have a gigantic military and actually kill innocent people for. I wanted to be part of the solution, not the murderous problem.

  35. Have to disagree with you on one point, let's just pretend that fusion power and EV's were miraculously perfected overnight, leading to abundant cheap energy and EV's with 300+ mile range, quick charging and $20,000 price tag. Do you think we would also get rid of our gigantic military? I really doubt it. I know people love to think the military serves at the behest of the oil companies but the truth is our dear leaders would never give up that power even if oil was rendered virtually obsolete overnight.

  36. Just maybe the fact Tesla owners are rich and the car costs $70k+ means there just might be a different owner class.

    The fact it won multiple Car of the Yr and beat the competition on the track, freeway, tech and luxury head on might have something to do with it.

    Power, handling, tech at a list price much lower than the competition running $100k+

    Looked in those terms as many Tesla owners do, it's really a bargain. And the rich are not dumd as the know a good deal when they see it.

    Green, EV, no gas is just a very nice bonus.

  37. Nobody will ever buy an EV only because it's green. Because if you are really interested in environment, you would not buy a car in the first place! You would take bus or a bike, which are still a lot more greener than any EV! People wants more for their money, and the green argument is only a little nice-to-have.

  38. Or Car-pool. What's that? nevermind, we don't do that in this country. Best thing is to get an EV and to car-pool.

  39. Exactly!

    They buy a new car b/c their old car is done or they need something newer, more reliable....

  40. Where I live there is no mass transit nor can I bike everywhere. Everything is spaced way too far apart.

  41. The hostility toward oil in this thread is very reassuring. I do NOT like the countries where foreign oil comes from, who delivers it, and where it ultimately goes. After owning an electric car and installing solar panels, I can't imagine going back. Looks like I'm in good company here.

  42. @Norm: I find it interesting that many people seem to differentiate between domestically produced oil and "foreign" oil. The carbon emissions from burning either one do not come with a statement of national origin.

    So, a Q for you: Is domestic oil OK? Should its use be encouraged? Is it "less bad" than "foreign" oil? Or is all oil equally bad? Should we work toward eliminating or severely reducing all oil use, or not?

    I'm serious about these Qs, btw.

  43. hi john,

    from a green standpoint, oil is oil. either it goes into the atmosphere, or it doesnt, etc.

    so i dont want to encourage the use of either domestic or foreign.

    however, with foreign oil, we have wars, etc. so its use brings on even more problems than using our own oil - which is why i think people are even more insistent about not using foreign oil.

    and i basically agree with that sentiment.

    cuz even if bevs were the only thing on the road, we are still gonna be using oil for some things.

    but perhaps it could just be domestic oil ?

    also the efficiency of ices using gas is very low, when compared to factories, etc.

    the percentage of energy burned that moves the car is pitifully poor.

  44. @John V,

    Some people are okay with it. Some people wants to minimize "foreign oil". They are NOT the same group of people who want to minimize oil.

  45. Ah, John. I deliberately used the "foreign" qualifier to avoid this complication. My primary objection with foreign oil is balance of payments, military entanglements and financial support for very unfriendly governments, and this would be true if there was no global warming. From this narrow perspective, domestic oil is more than OK, it is preferable. From a climate perspective, neither foreign nor domestic oil is OK. In combination with other fossil fuels, it may take down our civilization, but green is not the only reason to oppose oil.

  46. As a potential Model X or Gen 3 Tesla future owner, I can say that I'm not interested in the car for it being green. For me it would strictly be to avoid the high cost of gas and lower cost of maintenance while still having a nice car. I can't justify a Model S, but one of the next 2 models might fit the bill nicely.

  47. @Greg Sheldon: I would agree with you. I may purchase a Tesla (Mod X or Gen 3) after three years when my lease on the Leaf expires. By the way I am not surprised with the results of the survey. I would say that this would be the same with all other EV's. When I talked to the Nissan saleswoman she was trying to impress me with all the green talk (trees built on the dashboard etc). I let her know from the beginning that I was not as impressed with the green aspect but the economical benefit to the owner. I suspect that most EV owners are of the same persuasion.

  48. The Model X is expected to cost as much as the Model S so you will have to wait for the Gen III which is suppose to be priced in the mid $30,000. I am indeed interested I the Gen III especially if Tesla can achieve a 200 mile driving range with it.

  49. I heard that here, most purchases know math and want to save money

  50. @Ralph: In your last sentence, I might substitute "many" for "most"--my rough guess is that owners are split among all of the different motivations, and many would subscribe to more than one.

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1017946_green-car-people-who-buys-electric-and-plug-in-vehicles

  51. I know people who traded in their Porsche Cayenne Turbo S for a Model S at work. They don't care about being "green". If they did, they would haven't bought the Cayenne Turbo S in the first place...

  52. Performance. Nothing beats the silent rail gun like acceleration than a powerful EV can deliver. Tesla Model S beat a BMW M5 2 out of 3 times in a drag race to 100 mph. Tesla set out to make the best sport sedan in the world that just happens to be an electric vehicle as well. The Tesla Model S actually can beat gasoline powered sport sedans at their own game while the 9 second zero to 60mph Leaf can not. The Leaf can not even compete against cars costing as much and sadly is nothing but a commuter car since it is so range limited. Tesla make a great car that just happens to be an EV.

  53. And well they might not care,since detailed analyses of the emissions attributable to the Model S constitute a firm basis for lawsuits both against California's "zero emission" claim, as well as most of what has come from the (always) exaggerated claims of Tesla Motors itself (remember that "300 mile driving range on the Interstates?). Nor could anyone ever claim a 2 ton plus Model S to be "energy efficient."

  54. "And well they might not care,since detailed analyses of the emissions attributable to the Model S constitute a firm basis for lawsuits both against California's "zero emission" claim, as well as most of what has come from the (always) exaggerated claims of Tesla Motors itself (remember that "300 mile driving range on the Interstates?). Nor could anyone ever claim a 2 ton plus Model S to be "energy efficient."
    @Kent: Tesla never said the car will go 300 miles at freeway speeds. They said it will go up to 300 miles at 55 mph and the EPA has tested the Model S and said it achieved 265mpe. Also you said the Model S is not efficient well it also achieved a 98mpe overall rating which is way better than a Toyota Prius.

  55. I suspect that since the Model S has everything an electric car needs to compete against conventional cars it opens it self up to a wider audience. It doesn't take the dedication of a green driver to own one, and that is also why the Model S has been so successful. Once automakers start offering cars that can compete against the Model S then the electric future will be in full swing. And I think Tesla's early lead will allow them to one day be considered a mainstream independent automaker.

  56. Yes I agree John. People buy cars that perform, are efficient and look great. And if it's good for the environment, that's great too. That's the general public. Yes most people are aware that we must do more to be kind to our environment, but aren't willing to pay more to do that with their hard earned money. This is were OEMs get it so wrong. BMW brags how green their factory is and so on to make their i3 fit some new company image marketing dream. I say; shouldn't they be doing green factories anyway? Shouldn't they all? All OEMs need to say that the next car they make will be the best car they make. EVs are inherently hi-performance and better than gas cars. That's why they are going to be big sellers. NOT that they are "green." Duh!

  57. @Rady Ham,

    "a Prius is not more green than a BEV, even where I live, 100% coal"

    Okay, I guess EV lunatic would like to exaggerate numbers to show how EVs are favorable beyond all reasonable doubt.

    You know what? I am tired of stupid comments like this, b/c it will just make the rest of "normal" EV supporters look like "idiots" when we defend EVs in the real world.

    Here is what a Leaf owner did on CO2 emission study and linked by Previous GCR articles:
    http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/longtailpipe/index.html

    In this study, on average for the US blend of fossil fuel electricity generation

    "In the case of the 2012 Nissan Leaf, that amount is 230 grams per mile nationwide."

  58. Here is the link to EPA site where Prius's emission is listed at 179 gram of CO2 per miles.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33324

    This has shown that Prius is lower in CO2 emission.

    Of course, some zip code are better for the Leaf and some are worse. If you have solar, then you remove that completely.

    But making a statement such as "Prius is not more green than a BEV, even where I live, 100% coal" is lunatic or ignorant.

  59. I hope one day you learn how the power grid actually works. And you realize that the tail pipe emissions do not include the refining energy, transportation fuel, oil spills, NOx emissions, exploration costs, Military action to SECURE the fuel, and more.

    Oil refineries, 2008:
    http://tinyurl.com/ycq5e9e

    The electricity alone, if all cars were Leafs, would travel 600 miles a year.

    EPA: NG 0.0544 kg per cubic foot, so 3.86512e+13 g/CO2 year. Another 700 miles for 243 million cars a year. This does not factor in the fuels for the steam, the still gas, and other fuels, at there is already 1300 miles a year. Factor in the wars and other things, and it will rise much higher. Then remember an EV on coal uses wasted energy.

  60. The biggest problem is that you assume that electricty are free and people ONLY charge at night.

    I hope one day you can graduate from UGA with some basic education so you know how to think. Too bad that you couldn't get in Georgia Tech where the school would have taught you some real logical thinking.

    Do you realize that Canada is the biggest supplier of our foreign oil? Do you realize that coal and natural gas are also digged out of ground and shipped around? Do you realize that gasoline was a byproduct at refinery before people figure it out that the wasted byproduct can be used?

    The EPA numbers speak for itself...

  61. I don't think "electricity are free" and I did not comment where oil comes from. You assumed that I did not know most of our imported oil comes from canada. You also don't dig natural gas out of the ground, as a gas, it isn't just dug up like a rock. Most people do charge at night most of the time. That is very relevant and makes it much cleaner than burning gas, whether or not you want to accept it. It is a good point that the refinery makes other stuff, gasoline only makes ~ half of the barrel, slightly less. The EPA numbers are not so simple. If you learn how the electric grid and stop insult anyone ho disagrees with you maybe you could learn something.

  62. @Randy Hamlet,

    I believe you are the one that insulted the PHEV group first.

    As far as the so called "spare capacity" of power plants goes, it is location dependent and exaggerated. Coal and CNG power plants can be both tunned down. NOT off completely, but backed off significantly. Whether there is "wasted" power to charge depending on the day and night power differential at the region where the power plant services. In heavy industrial zone, that is true. But in service based area, the spare capacity is limited. In the sparsely industrial area of Athens, GA, that would be the case.

  63. Of course the difference in off peak times/demand amount is different in different places. Where I live, everyone works in manufacturing, and we have 4 major manufactures in a 10 mile radius and many more farther than that. I also know that my power company does have a lot of wasted energy off peak, I have spoken with some of the representatives. Some power plants can throttle back power more than others, but ones that can cut it back significantly are quite rare. I do agree that charging an EV during peak demand on coal, in most cases, will release more CO2 emissions than a Prius's tailpipe emissions, although the background emissions will help even them more out. Most time EVs are charged off peak and the other benefits are worth it to me

  64. @Randy Hamlet,

    "How could a hybrid, like yours, be greener than an electric, even if it plugs in..? "

    Here is something you should learn in School.

    How green a BEV is depending on the source of electricity. In the case of my Volt against your Leaf, My Volt is completely powered by the solar panels on my roof and the 1MW solar at work. So, my emission of my Volt can be FAR lower than your Leaf where it is powered by the existing US electricity grid.

    Got it? You have much more learn about EVs. Your enthusiasm is good, but your knowledge is seriously deficient. People like you will NOT hold up against the most critical EV critics. Believe me, I defend EVs at work on a daily basis, in order to do that, you have to be informed/logical

  65. Also, I have said this over and over again on the GCR that high efficient hybrids such as Prius is the biggest threat to EVs due to it low cost and today's infrastructure.

  66. TRU LI SAID.
    I'm a conservative, and I bought a Chevy Volt, but not because it was green. The green part was not a factor.
    I bought it because it's electric, fun to drive, doesn't depend on oil, is a giant gadget, and not because it's green.

    It didn't replace anything.WHY? I'm a computer/tech nut that likes his toys. The greenies do far more damage to us and our country than WW III.
    My Volt beats Prius hands down. Worst mpg 62. Average 250+, 6 months = 8 gallons.
    Tesla ... Race me to Tyler and back 240 miles. hahaha .. call a tow-truck.

  67. I am glad that you love your Volt. I love mine too. People buy various cars for "various" reasons. But making a "blank statement" to exaggerate the benefit of EVs aren't going to help the spread of EVs.

    I think a pragmatic approach is far better.

    Personally, I don't think "green" should be the only reason to push people into EVs. Tesla Model S is a great example.

    If you can get people to trade in their gas guzzler Mercedez or M5 for a Model S, then the "green" part is already done.

  68. It is not "250 MPG" when you are using another power source to drive the hybrid. The Volt only gets 40 MPG and has an electric range of 38 miles. If I push my car 50 miles and drive it 10 miles, would it be 60 miles per gallon because I used a gallon for the last 10 miles? No, two different power sources.

  69. @Randy Hamlet: I have deleted your comment because your TinyURLs deliberately insult another commenter. This is outside polite discussion. Feel free to re-post it without the attack.

    @Xiaolong: I have now warned you several times about the tone of your comments. Do NOT attack other commenters here--EVEN if they attack you. Leave it to me to moderate. Please keep it polite, respectful & confined to facts.

    Both of you: I'm tired of moderating rude comments from prolific commenters who post dozens of back-and-forth comments that reiterate the same points on the same article.

    I don't want to ban either of you, but that is within the realm of moderation. Please be considerate. Thank you.

  70. So, my "tone" even need moderation now?

    Okay, fine. But remember that there are "plenty of bad tones" generated from "EV elitist" toward PHEV community and you have NEVER EVER warn any of them on that. So, I ONLY do this b/c I feel you are NOT being fair.

    If they think BEV is the "only" solution to the world, then as a PHEV owner, I will NOT support the EV community if those so called BEV elitist keep that attitude up.

    I have done plenty in my work and my local community to promote the EVs in general and to help increase the EV awareness or defending against attacks on EV. I promote BEV and PHEV both b/c I believe they are both solution toward the future. This kind of "internal" conflict is exactly what oil company loves...

  71. @Xiaolong: You may not have seen it, but I have warned two other commenters in the last 96 hours about tone and name-calling as well.

    Let me repeat: We encourage robust discussion, but NOT name-calling, slurs on other commenters, and so forth. If you wouldn't say it face to face in front of other people, please don't say it here. We value your comments, but as the site grows, we're working hard to keep it a safe and respectful place for all points of view.

    Thank you in advance.

  72. Xiaolong, I am not a BEV elitist. I realize that they will not work for everyone. My mother, for example, is a prime candidate for a PHEV. She drives to work and back in about 35 miles but has to go over a hundred miles regularly to teach classes. The amount she would save regularly on electric would be better than a high milage TDI. She is single, so she cant just swap with another family member. If you are in the same boat then I am glad you got the Volt. I am not against PHEVs, I think in most cases it is unnecessary, but for some it makes sense.

  73. There are many people who are similar to that. Drive few miles daily but need a car for long trips...

  74. I think the way the volt is set up is silly though, the BMW i3 is set up much better because it is a small efficient generator instead. I felt from the beginning that if Chevy put a diesel generator in the Volt and advertised it as a car that could power you home, then it would have made much more sense.

    And on the tone, John deleted my comments because I said something in the TinyURLs that was insulting (I can't even remember what I said now…). I think he probably deleted two of my comments, but I don't know where that other page is because the "Notify me when there are more comments" doesn't work for me. I have to say he has been fair to us both, we both got out of line.

  75. First of all, why is i3 REx more efficient? From its 2.4gallon tank to the projected 80 to 90 (no more than its EV range set in rule by CARB), how is it better than Volt's 40mpg? It is NOT certainly by those numbers.

    Second of all, Volt is designed to be a true "long range" car when needed. Plenty of Volt drivers that I know at work already took thousands of miles trip. Many of them covered 700 miles or more in 1 day. How are they going to do that with an i3 with REx? BMW even said that i3 is a city car and its REx is NOT designed for long trips.

    Third of all, 75% of all daily drives are less than 40 miles. Then on the weekend if you take 200 miles+ drive, then Volt is certainly an ideal blend.

  76. There are more comments in this thread
  77. The term or concept of "energy security" is flawed and was launched for political purposes. The USA has more financial global interests supported by politicians for election objectives. The Tesla car is a high performance electric vehicle. This article proves the point. This is "Ferrari" approach. Give people what they want and it shall sell. Tesla is a model of this goal from the original sports model to the latest sedans. But the concept of "energy security" is false and needs to go away.

  78. Exactly. Make a no compromise sport sedan that just happens to be an electric vehicle and it will sell. The Model S rides like a Bentley and is even quieter since it has no noisy ICE. It will out accelerate that vast majority of sport sedans on the market and achieves a 98mpge efficiency which is way better than even a Toyota Prius. Styling is great with a body that looks like an Aston Martin or Maserati and a practical interior with nice materials and you will have a winner. Everyone else is selling buy me I am good for the Planet compromised goofy looking under powered EV's and they wonder why they are not selling as well. Tesla Model S is not a cheap car yet it is selling very well despite being rather expensive because it is a great car

  79. The two tesla owners I know have owned bentleys. They are obviously not interested in being green, but want a car everyone is talking about. They didn't trade these cars in to get their tesla so I wonder how many non trade in customers are like them.

  80. We bought our 2011 LEAF not because we are super green, but because we are cheap! We save over $300 per month in fuel costs. In 22,000 miles we only replaced the in cabin air filter. We replaced a 10 year old Mini SUV. Our only regret is that the LEAF can't be driven more. With only 1 charging station in Tulsa we are limited to our full charge range.

  81. okay, which some of the Model S owners who are interested in Anime?

  82. How many Volts. I'm not a greenie. I' a Volt Charger.

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