Is Tesla 'Bricking' Story Just An Angry Owner's Warranty Claim?
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2011 Tesla Roadster Sport. Photo by Joe Nuxoll.
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And now perhaps it all becomes clear.
The Tesla battery 'bricking' post that was today's electric-car news story and generated reams of coverage may simply be an attempt by an unhappy owner to get Tesla Motors to replace the battery in his Roadster.
At least, that would appear to be the logical conclusion from a letter we just received from a source.
It was sent by Roadster owner Max Drucker, of Santa Barbara, California, to Tesla CEO Elon Musk, dated February 12.
Several points in the note and parts of the language echo parts of the sensational blog post by author Michael DeGusta that kicked off the scare.
(DeGusta and Drucker were business partners for seven years, it turns out, though Drucker is not identified anywhere in DeGusta's post as an unhappy Roadster owner.)
Drucker, the letter writer, admits in the letter that he left his Roadster unplugged for more than two months--saying that he was in temporary housing and "didn't have a convenient place" to plug in the car.
And, he claims ignorance that such a thing was necessary: "I had no idea I was putting the car at risk or obviously I would not be in the position I am in now."
Tesla specifically warns the owner to keep the car plugged in, both through its customer staff and in several places in owner manuals and elsewhere.
From our earlier Q+A on the phenomenon of 'bricking':
Q: Does Tesla tell Roadster buyers to keep their cars plugged in?
A: Yes. It's prominently called out in the warranty and owner's documents.
(We've provided four three images from the Tesla Roadster owner's manual and other documentation, in the gallery below, that highlight the necessary care for the battery.)
Drucker's letter suggests there will be a "major public outcry" when "middle-class families" who buy the upcoming Model S sedan "accidentally let their batteries discharge."
And the letter suggests that this whole affair will become a "PR nightmare for Tesla."
Drucker ends, "I am not going to write this off as a $40K mistake and move on happily."
Read the complete text of the letter on the next page.
Then tell us in the Comments below: Who do you side with, aggrieved owner Max Drucker or Tesla Motors?
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Have an opinion?
Sounds to me that his short-term rental just might have been jail, else why wasn't he at least driving his expensive car.
Drucker, it's time to pony up and pay the price for your stupidity!
Tesla made a rather big deal of the new batteries for the Model S being automotive grade which might mean they don't require constant thermo-management so they can be more effectively protected against catastrophic discharging.
NO it would not survive. 25% is only 5 weeks and he let it sit for 6. He is an idiot and can not read.
Thanks for that added information. But at 50% loss of charge per day on a 52 KWH battery pack, the Tesla is wasting more energy per day than my house. Something is really wrong there.
I said
50% loss over 7 days.
That's about a 7% loss per day for 7 days. Please point out any fully electric car using Lithium batteries in 2008-2010 that is more efficient.
Please point out any ICE that has an engine more efficient than 30%. Which even using your math would be about the lowest so could calculate a Roadster.
"most internal combustion engines retain an average efficiency of about 18%-20%" google it for reference.
I can't believe you think a car is a house.
Maybe Tesla could put sign like this on the windshield that the customer would have to remove? Then see how long it takes to find someone dumb enough to leave it unplugged anyway.
Is there a market for used EV batteries yet? Most of the modules in that pack are probably fine for stationary uses like solar panel backup. The knuckle head could cut his losses.
No comparison. The roadster self-destructed and it is Tesla's fault. Clearly a bad design. Perhaps it is a "usable" design in a legal sense, but clearly a bad design.
The responsibility is on the owner to understand what the limitations of their car is by reading the manual and having a basic understanding of the tech.
The key difference is that it is easier to signal to the driver that there is a loss of coolant or oil (because he is at the steering wheel) than it is to tell the user that his battery pack is about to self destruct (because he is away on vacation).
This "design defect" has been around for a long time and continues to keep our insurance premiums high.
One difference is that the customer is insured against this risk.
Not by Tesla so why is that disturbing?
1. if it is not rechargeable..u need another one...
2. if it is rechargeable, it needs sufficient charge and management to maintain the charge capability.
The Tesla power pack, like any rechargeable battery, needs to be managed...
as posted earlier by Tom.. even the driver of an ICE.. needs to manage the engine... and put petrol, oil.. ... all those ugly fluids into it .. to keep it running according to Manufacturer's specks..
This should be a bonus.. for friends of Electric Vehicles..
when your friend goes on holiday... Quickly volunteer to take care of their Tesla.. lol..
Is it reasonable to expect that you can simply ignore a manufacturer's instructions on safe operation of a product and then, after destroying the product through irresponsible abuse, ask the manufacturer to pay for your folly?
I have zero sympathy with this guy, too feckless to follow basic instructions on the care of an expensive item, and too quick to cry "victim" rather than fess up to his own stupidity.
Why can't people own up to their own mistakes, instead of finding someone else to blame?
I've driven electric vehicles for 11 years (EV-1 and RAV4-EV), and it would not have occurred to me that leaving the car unplugged for two months would destroy the pack. I read the sections in the manual, and while they do contain warnings, at no point do they say clearly "If you leave the car unplugged for a long period of time, the battery pack will be destroyed." They talk about "permanent damage" and "prematurely decreas[ed] life".
The Roadster manual is quite clear about how to store the car, but it does not in my opinion make clear the consequences of improper storage.
I'd also like to know the mechanism behind the damage to the pack. I've left various lithium ion batteries (laptop batteries, etc) disconnected for many months without ruining them. What makes the Roadster's pack different?
I previously sold an engineering product that contained a Casio E-125 PDA as part of the system. The Casio E-125 would "brick" the battery after 1 year of non-use.
But at least it wasn't 2 months. Clearly Tesla has failed the customers in their design.
Also, 25% charge is a bit low for storing a Li-Ion battery. But you should know that 50% charge is optimal for long term storage. Fully charged Li-Ion batteries deteriorate more quickly. This is why Li-Ion batteries are only 50% charged when you buy them. Shipping them fully charged damages the batteries.
Also, if all Li-Ion batteries self destructed in 6 weeks, none of the Li-Ion phone batteries in the stores would work.
Tesla isn't your best friend, people, it's a company that needs to tweak a design slightly to account for this. You can support Tesla and still admit this isn't a great design of this one area even if the owner is at fault. Design to account for stupidity, not to use it as an excuse when stupidity inevitably raises its ugly head.
Cover this owner, probably not, but design better next time to not have this issue, absolutely.
EVs are simpler to own in some regards -- no oil changes, no transmission fluids, and so forth -- but require care in other aspects. This is an educational process that EV sellers must address.
This is a great article in that it will get the word out.
And I have to give you guys credit for ignoring the (at least) 4 other people that this has happened to. In response to Robert Stoddard, a middle class family wouldn't have to leave the car unplugged for months for this to happen to them. While a fully charged battery might last for a month, actually driving the car somewhere- like to an airport- will leave the battery with substantially less charge. After a week, it will reach 0.
And tracking customers without permission = WIN
I do not think the market would support that manufacturer either, I sure would not by that laptop/cell phone. If this is a true case fine, it is a PR and educational lesson which we need to endear into the electric car culture as the liability of electric...Gas guzzling nation would be excited to tell the world "See we told you so!" "Electric is no better and is even worse, $40k worse!"
I believe Mr. Druker loves his Tesla and does not throw poop on it, He does not drive it like a tractor, he does not race it in crash up derby's, he probably cleans it once a month, parks in a garage (when his house is fully constructed), and earnestly appreciates his $100k green investment.
You can not compare the two cars.
For most people the airport is within 50 miles which leaves plenty of charge for 4 weeks or more. Heck you could park a Roadster at the airport with a 25% charge and come back 4 weeks later and it would probably be fine.
If you parked it with 0%-50% charge at the airport and did not plug it in, how in the world did you plan on driving it home for that distance? Maybe you chose the wrong car. EVs are not for everyone.
Tesla needs to sit down on this one, eat the $40K and come up with some way to disconnect that pack if it reaches a low point.
Jack Rickard
EVTV
http://www.EVTV.me
I know with some Ferraris, they have a switch to disconnect the 12 volt battery for when the car is in long term storage.
Sometimes, people are away for extended periods of time due to work commitments and a method for long term storage is required.
It should be noted that an ICE powered car, when stored for long periods of time needs to be prepared for storage according to manufacturers' instructions.
Crazy Al
http://www.ElectricCarConversionBlog.com
* draining fuel;
* disconnecting battery;
* pouring a tea spoon of something I can't remember into each spark plug hole, then putting spark plug back in and turn motor 1 or 2 revolutions;
Then, when you take your ICE out of long term storage, have to hope that the seals have not shrunk and that there are no fuel leaks. Also, hope that valves have not rusted, otherwise, the motor runs like crap for a while. And, have to hope the piston rings have not corroded.
I found ICE a nightmare, which is why I converted my go kart to Electric as it has less issues than with ICE.
Crazy Al
http://www.ElectricCarConversionBlog.com
http://jalopnik.com/5887499/who-is-trying-to-smear-the-tesla-battery-problem-whistleblower
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7648-Do-you-know-that-you-must-keep-your-battery-charged/page24?p=115930&viewfull=1#post115930
(Not referring to this guy's battery problem, just the fact that this car is going to suck power off the grid regardless of if you drive it down to work or leave it in the garage)
Mr Drucker may have missed vital information and wasn't aware of the ramifications of not keeping the battery on charge. I don't read it as an angry letter. He gave feedback and suggestions.
Tesla have made a car that relies on the owner to perform certain tasks. These actions might have parallels with ICE cars, but they are still different and unfamiliar.
Yes, it's true that an engine will seize without oil changes and petrol will go stale and affect an ICE car similarly.
It looks like the type of letter I would write when something goes wrong and I think it can be improved.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4433&d=1329960743
So has anyone claimed for damage caused by tyre chains? :)
I am talking pure business strategy here.
Blatant case of negligence and abuse. Very likely if the car was fully charged prior to it's extended storage the damage would have been minimal if any.
I feel it is not Tesla's fault.
However, there is a lot of confusion about batteries amongst the general public.
In my opinion, I guess the best way for Tesla to handle it would be
1/ Have educational sessions for owners that addresses things like storage, battery care, maintenance etc. Use various forms of communication to get that message out to owners.This could get me flamed, but perhaps, Tesla & Max can work together on this one.Max spreads Tesla's educational message & in return Max gets batteries sorted -> win-win
2/ In future models, look into having a switch for long term storage so that the battery does not drain as quickly.
2) Future models are already protected.
I think a good PR move would be to help this guy out, to some extent, but I can already see the attacks on Fox... Work on improving the design now, though, this cannot make it into production for the Model S.
There are still almost 10K reservations for the Model S. I don't think they have to worry about the PR. It hasn't made much difference. People who are going to buy one still want one. People who do not want one will not.
Tesla already bends over backwards to protect it's owners from defects now. See the following article ...
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/tesla-dismantles-roadster-owner-repair-just-warranty-expires-175103061.html
Tesla has no responsibility to repair damage caused by abuse. Nor should any company. They had already deeply discounted the new $61,000 battery by over 33% when they had no moral, legal or business obligation to dos so.
Something smells very fishy about this story.
What do you americans say? "Can't blame for trying".
1. Already the consumer has no idea how long to even expect the car to last for their 50k plus purchase. Because this is entirely new and we are in uncharted territories there is no record how long a usual tesla car will even last. With a BMW purchase at east you can expect 10 years or longer
2. Flimsy 3 year warranty that doesn't cover most important component "battery"
3. Dead battery means 40k plus repair which is pretty much the amount of the model S. Whether the cause is a plug that stopped working, defective extension cord, out of town, the charge not strong enough, another 40kis not worth
This article is not about the Model S or Model X. Those are different cars with different battery packs that are redesigned.
Take a stop by Tesla's home page some time and actually read the warranty for the Model S.
The Roadster is the first car they made. Different battery pack. in some cases even a different battery chemistry than the S or X.
Seems to me that the required care for the vehicle is spelled out.
Any other auto manufacturer will not tell you up front how much it will cost to replace an engine, but we have a general idea about the costs because people have had to do it before. This is a first for a new technology and now that it has happened, we have a general idea of the costs. Mr. Max is out $40k... refer back to the part about participating in a new technology and its risks.
Parking this car unplugged anywhere and not checking on it for 6 weeks is very very much negligence in my opinion. Parking it at 25% charge unplugged for 6 weeks and not even bothering to check on it borders in stupidity.
Those defending the owner serious and honestly say that they would not check on the car after leaving it unplugged for more than a week or two? Even after you signed a paper that said you would void the warranty?
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it
"Even in cases of neglect, the latest Tesla batteries are industry leaders. The earliest Roadsters will take over two months to discharge if parked at a 50 percent charge without being plugged in. From that starting point, Tesla has consistently innovated and improved our battery technology. For example, a Model S battery parked with 50 percent charge would approach full discharge only after about 12 months. Model S batteries also have the ability to protect themselves as they approach very low charge levels by going into a “deep sleep” mode that lowers the loss even further......."
Abuse of a vehicle is not covered by a warranty.
Here is an example of a 2 minute not 2 years ICE abuse that I am sure is not covered by the warranty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0MBcfWbhUs
If the instruction to "KEEP THE CAR PLUGGED IN WHEN NOT IN USE" is too difficult for you. "DON'T BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR"
Doing a burnout with an ICE vehicle can cause massive damage to the powertrain ... "DO BURNOUTS AT YOUR OWN RISK"
LEAVE YOUR ELECTRIC CAR UNPLUGGED AT YOUR OWN RISK.
And even better question might be, who buys a car which is designed in such a way, and what are they thinking?
Have an opinion?Join the conversation!