Tesla's Elon Musk & NY Times: Disturbing Discrepancies On Model S Range Reporting Page 2
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It told the story with some remarkably different details.
Musk dives in by saying Broder's article "does not factually represent Tesla technology, which is designed and tested to operate well in both hot and cold climates."
And, he notes, "About half of all Tesla Roadster and Model S customers drive in temperatures well below freezing in winter."
'Never had a chance'?
The data logs for Broder's car show, Musk writes, "that our Model S never had a chance with John Broder."
Then Tesla dives into nine separate points where it says the data logs contradict Broder's published claims, among them:
- Cruise control was never set at 54 mph, as claimed; the majority of the trip was done at 65 to 81 mph
- When Broder claims to have turned down the cabin temperature, the logs show he turned it up to 74 degrees F
- Broder's time at the SuperCharger station was 47 minutes, not 58 minutes as claimed; those 11 extra minutes could have delivered enough range for the rest of his journey
- Broder was directed by Tesla to charge the car fully at that point, but he left with the battery at just 72 percent capacity
The post includes five data-log graphs, an annotated version of the original New York Times infographic, an annotated route map, and a map showing all chargers en route.
Disturbing discrepancies
The post also suggests at several points that Broder's motives were less than unbiased: "When the Model S valiantly refused to die, he eventually plugged it in. On the later legs, it is clear Broder was determined not to be foiled again."
The discrepancies raised in Tesla's post, if accurate, are deeply disturbing.
![Speed log from Tesla Model S trip conducted by John Broder, The New York Times [from Tesla Motors]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/speed-log-from-tesla-model-s-trip-conducted-by-john-broder-the-new-york-times-from-tesla-motors_100419207_s.jpg "Speed log from Tesla Model S trip conducted by John Broder, The New York Times [from Tesla Motors]")
Speed log from Tesla Model S trip conducted by John Broder, The New York Times [from Tesla Motors]
Enlarge PhotoThey appear to indicate that Broder's article was not factual on numerous points. That means that either his reporting and note-taking were sloppy, at best, or that he omitted or concealed relevant facts that would add important context to his claims.
We expect--and eagerly await--a rebuttal from Broder, The New York Times, or both.
Whether the newspaper will consider the discrepancies serious enough to warrant an internal inquiry remains to be seen.
[UPDATE: As of 9:45 am Thursday, it appears that The New York Times is preparing a response to the Tesla post. What form that will take--whether it's merely an update to Broder's Tuesday blog post, or something more substantial--remains to be seen.]
"Please note, no one from Tesla – including Elon – will be providing additional comment on this topic moving forward, as we feel the blog speaks for itself," wrote Tesla communications manager Shanna Hendriks in a note to journalists.
"At this time, this post is the company’s final statement on the issue."
Winter weather tough on range
To be fair, electric-car range does suffer greatly in cold temperatures.
![2013 Tesla Model S electric sport sedan [photo by owner David Noland]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/tmb/2013-tesla-model-s_100421975_t.gif)
![2013 Tesla Model S electric sport sedan [photo by owner David Noland]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/tmb/2013-tesla-model-s_100421969_t.gif)
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![2013 Tesla Model S before DC-to-Boston road trip, Feb 2013 [photo: Aaron Schildkraut]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/tmb/2013-tesla-model-s-before-dc-to-boston-road-trip-feb-2013-photo-aaron-schildkraut_100419337_t.gif)
![2011 Chevrolet Volt and 2013 Tesla Model S [photo: David Noland]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/tmb/2011-chevrolet-volt-and-2013-tesla-model-s-photo-david-noland_100427533_t.gif)
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The New York Times, on the other hand, has no satire defence. John is wonderfully fair and balanced here.
I've seen enough to call a foul play already.
http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/articlemap0.jpg
Once again though - the real headline is, as John eludes - the Model S is fast, smooth, efficient and can make the journey from Washington to Boston
Please try in future to write in complete sentences; it will make it much easier to understand what you're trying to say. I don't want to start deleting comments, but five of your 13 comments have "BRICK" in capital letters.
Unless you can connect the "bricking" problem in the previous model of Tesla to the topic of this article, please consider your comments. Thank you in advance.
Battery depletion has a host of variables affecting how long and under what conditions any stack of batteries designed for a laptop PC lasts. My apple lithium battery did what all lithium laptop batteries will do in 4 or 5 years, it expanded beyond its casing. Personally I foresee a copper battery, combined with a hydrogen fuel cell as an eventual auto future energy source, as Germany has been developing hydrides for a couple of decades, starting off in busses, and are poised for the automotive trade.
The NYT is the worst newspaper in the U.S. according to the Fox News crowd; does that not tell you anything?
Not to say that the NYT hasn't published some nonsense, either. You're right, though, at moments like this, the NYT is really no better than Fox News.
Reporters who lie don't get to stay reporters.
1. made the trip without problem,
2. the detour to the Level 2 charger would not have been necessary,
3. the trip could have been made at a nice speed,
4. and at a comfy temerature
Compare this to the impression Broder's article will give to the unprepared reader.
Well, someone is lying. Either Mr. Musk or Mr. Broder. And unless Tesla has just fabricated their data log...I cannot imagine how Broder will be able to get work writing for a montessori school paper.
Stay tuned and kudos to Tesla for picking this battle, which I still think is worthwhile.
>The fact that Broder was biased and had written a biased article before (that Tesla didn't know about!!!)is another indication that Tesla still has a ways to go to get its act together.
This should have been handled better by Tesla PR. But this says nothing about the technical abilities of the car. You should drive one. I do EVERY DAY. The Roadster may have been a science project but the Model S is a refined work of art.
to drive a petrol car with an EPA rating of 450 miles, over 550 miles, ignoring warnings about low fuel and the faster than expected range loss due to cold weather. In other words, if you want to prove something can fail, you will undoubtedly succeed! Big surprise!
"They can't support the reporter...?" Sre you kidding, what support did he need that wasn't provided? Help not lying? Help using common sense? Help not having a bias? I wonder how the many other journalists who've driven the Model S manged when poor Mr. Broder was victimized in your mind?
You don't explain what Elon Musk's personal life and living arrangments have to do with this fact.
or we can look at this as an EV experience in which we all pretty much know that an EV'er would have found overnight charging. Hotels these days are so ready to generate new business that they would bend over backwards to provide 120 if asked. I have done it several times and have never been turned down including some where very gallant efforts were made to get a plug to me.
so the article did not set right with me on either front from day one
This article doesn't even begin to describe the scale and boldness of Mr. Broder's lies. People should really read Tesla's blog for a full report:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive
Somehow I don't think NYT sacks reporters for lying though. Maybe for not getting away with it...
And I don't mean this to mock you or insult you, just to point out that it happens and might happen again here if there is any justice.
I will stick with GCR for my source of EV news... :)
No. We need to get to the bottom of this. Why exactly did John Broder lie in his report ? Why is this not another "Jason Blair" case ?
Broder says that a Tesla employee told him the range loss was the result of a software glitch.
Was the range loss really the result of a software glitch - implying range loss like this won't happen in the future after Tesla updates its software?
Or is the range loss the result of battery physics? And how does this range loss relate to temperature? What would have happened if the car had been parked overnight at 0 degree F instead of 10 degree F? or 50 degrees F?
The Model S pack has an ideal operational temperature of ~65-70F … for best performance away from ideal conditions the battery will require energy for heating, or cooling. Battery pack capacity can vary ~5-15% depending on temperature difference and battery chemistry.
For reference petro changes in volume ~2% for 0-70F. ICE has advantage in cold as its fuel is combination of air + petro, & air is more dense at cooler temperatures.
Your main point, however, is entirely correct. Even in states with the dirtiest grids (WV and ND, IIRC), running on grid power is lower-carbon than a 25-mpg car. In California, you have to have a 100-mpg car (which doesn't exist) to get as clean as a plug-in.
And that's shown both by last year's Union of Concerned Scientists study and the landmark 2007 EPRI-NRDC study. Which I rather suspect commenter Cox has never read.
http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/vehicle-owner-survey?utm_source=pev-survey&utm_medium=repondents&utm_campaign=cvrp
So, he is probably going to be the "worst" critic of anything electric. That is just the way it is going to be.
Test Tesla, address your concerns to them and see how they respond! You have options & EV choices in So. Cal., ~12 in 2013, potentially 20 in 2014.
Good luck finding the "best vehicle" for you. :)
The Gulf War I was a choice too? To re-establish the monarch that is friendly to us and sell us their oil...
Automobile Magazine's 2013 Car of the Year
Motor Trend's 2013 Car of the Year, and awards given by Time Magazine, CNET, Popular Science, Yahoo Autos, Green Car Reports, AutoGuide.com
Gee, I wonder who's more likely to fudge the facts, Tesla's well-known data logs, which have been published, of course, or a writer whose dislike of EVs is known?
For most of us, to blame Tesla for this is just wrong. Please buy what you want, of course, but Tesla will do fine outside California once the dealerships exist and the vehicles are available.
Notice that we don't have actual quotes from anyone who actually gave him the advice. This is reporting 101. He should have a name, time etc. He can't even look into his phone to see how many times he called Tesla. Or who he talked to. Or when those calls happened.
I'll look forward to your comments here when others replicate the trip and have zero problems.
http://www.kingoftheroad.net/charge_across_america/charge_html/chargehome.html
More on the 50 kW Magne Charge fast charger for EV1 http://www.eanet.com/ev1-club/archive/981017/981017.htm
First, there's a major difference between a two-seat coupe and a five-person luxury sport sedan. Far fewer U.S. buyers (generally only 1% of the market) will ever buy a two-seat car.
Second, the Tesla SuperCharger system now exists and is in use. The system you describe was "developed but never made it to market"--so it remains in the realm of the hypothetical.
Interesting history, though. What might have been versus what exists now.
So, it's not a matter of right-wing media being better or more accurate -- they're not, and no one who has not drunk the ideological Kool-Aid would contest that. The issue is that even news outlets -- such as the New York Times -- that do a better job than the demonstrably-idiotic ones, are far from perfect.
But Let me play "devil's own advocate" for a second here. We have to admit that BEVs today are NOT "fool proof". Average BEV cars buyers are probably more educated, more wealthy and more intelligent than "average car buyers". So, the technology is NOT "fool proof" yet. Whether Broder did it intentionaly or NOT is another matter, but the fact is that someone can act like an "idiot" and end up getting stuck, with the latest and greatest BEV on earth. Sure, the same thing can happen with gasoline cars as well. But the fact is ICE cars carry more energy and have more available public infrastructure and more owner experiences, the chance of this happening in ICE cars is far less than BEVs
Neil
3. If Broder is truly "objective", then he should have stated that in his "experiement" as trying to be as "dumb" as a typical ICE driver get. But he didn't...
A funny story, one lady rushed into my local Chevy Dealer service room while I was waiting to get my tire patched for a small punchture. She came into the room and asked out "loudly", "I need help!!", "my kid played with my SUV and somehow managed to change all the controls to French and I can't find a way to switch it back and I can't do anything anymore...Help! I need help now!"
Just about everyone in room laughed out loudly. But apparently, no one spoke French in that room...
How energy will 200,000 EVs draw per day? Typical driving is about 40 miles per day. 2% is MORE than enough to cover that. That 85% is powering the rest of the industrial usage. When you reduce your gasoline usage, it will also reduce those dirty powers that needs to power the refinery and gas stations.
Just so you know. I am NOT calling for elimination of all fosill fuels over night. But there is NOTHING wrong with moving towards more green energy.
Personally, my Volt is powered by both the 3KW solar panels on my roof and the 1MW solar panels at work.
The Leaf is a commuter,not a general purpose car.
So Mr Border, I retract my implications that the article was untruthful.
It's really a shame for all involved that this wasn't resolved with a phone call or emails clarifying the viewpoints of both sides and reconciling that with the data.
Consumers without instructions on EVs could experience these issues. Work to do.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/
http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/
He had range to spare, in fact.
The New York Times has to very concerned about their reputation - it is the most important asset they have.
Mr. Broder is trying to spin things but he is a journalist - and not an entertainer. I watched Transport Evolved podcast #138 and Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield ( http://www.youtube.com/user/aminorjourney ) and she mentions that the BBC "reports" on this in a one-sided self-serving way.
I think that Elon Musk knew what he was doing.
Neil
I take kayaking trips that would put all currently available electric cars out of their safe charge range. That means that if I was going to buy any Tesla I would still need a real car to take on such a trip.
I can hop in my Jetta TDI and drive 200 miles to a remote area without worrying about where I am going to plug it in. Until electric cars can do the same they are a not general purpose cars.
I have a challenge for Mr. Musk: Newport Oregon to the Steens Mountains. You WILL loose. The Tesla is just a toy for rich people. Nothing more, nothing less!
And I don't feel I'm trying to cover for the NYT. I'm trying to present all relevant facts so that readers can make up their own minds. Sounds like you've done that already?
http://andwediditourway.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-not-so-ev-life.html
The Big Ones ? Eh ?
At 6F (which it apparently was on the night Mr. Broder stayed in the hotel) and say a 4 year old battery or if he left the dome light on or if there was a little water in the tank - what guarantee would Mr. Broder have that the engine would even start; let alone be able to go as far as it would have on the ~1/4 tank of gas?
Neil
What are the motivations for the 50-plus comments you've posted on this topic in the last 3 days?
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