Mechanic's Worry: Electric Car Brakes Will Ruin My Business
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Talk to any independent auto-repair mechanic, and you'll learn that the single most important item that keeps a shop in business is brakes.
But hybrids and electric cars use their friction brakes far less aggressively than regular cars.
That's because when the driver presses the pedal, some or all of the slowing comes from engaging an electric motor that acts as a generator to turn the car's momentum into electricity that recharges the battery pack.
So what happens as hybrids and electrics grow more popular over the years and decades to come?
Enter Joe Ferrer, owner of BS&F Auto Parts in the Bronx, New York. He's the star of "Hard Parts: South Bronx," a show based on the day-to-day life of his busy store.
Ferrer says that brakes are easily 35 to 40 percent of his total business. Replacing rotors, calipers, and pads keeps his shop humming.
But on hybrids, brake jobs aren't needed every 15,000 miles as they are on conventional cars--more like 45,000 miles, he says.
"That will have a tremendous impact on my business," he worries. "It's an area where parts stores and shops make a lot of money."
And he worries that the complex power electronics and computerized control systems of electric and hybrid cars mean they'll only be serviceable by dealerships, not independent shops.
"If we go all electric," he says, "it'll be a catastrophe for me."
Over the course of a long chat with Ferrer, he admitted that such a change wasn't likely to happen overnight.
And we noted that even the most optimistic analyses project that by 2020--eight years from now--hybrids and plug-in cars will only total perhaps 10 or 15 million vehicles, out of more than 1 billion vehicles on the planet.
In other words, there's a very long tail of older vehicles that will continue to need servicing. And because cars are better built and longer-lasting now, they may have a longer service life than those built in the Eighties, when Ferrer first got into the business.
It's true, however, that one selling point of battery-electric cars is how little service and repair they need.
Or as one owner crisply summarizes it, "Yep, wiper blades and tires, that's it."
That doesn't apply to plug-in hybrids, though. While they too use regenerative braking, they still carry engines, which will need exhaust systems, accessory-drive belts, spark plugs, and so forth.
But over time, Ferrer probably does have a point: Continuing system integration, more electronics, and improved quality mean that independent shops may have less opportunity to do the run-of-the-mill repairs that have kept them in business for a century.
What do you think? Should Ferrer worry, or is it the next generation of auto mechanics who may not be able to open their own shops?
Leave us your thoughts in the Comments below.
And if you want more of Joe Ferrer, you can watch "Hard Parts" on Speed TV (Tuesdays at 9 pm Eastern, 6 pm Pacific).
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Have an opinion?
I have a 2004 Toyota Corolla with 115,000 miles on the original brakes and clutch (stick shift). Of course, I don't drive like "some people" :).
2006 Prius, 85,000 miles, original brakes, rotors look a little rusty.
But to the larger point, 2004 Corolla has only needed Oil, 2 sets of tires, battery, and one oxygen sensor in 112,000. I suspect that is what will wreck his business.
Use ONLY your brakes. Better to wear brake pads than rev engine and create needless wear on the transmission and drive train.
As for Joe Foerster and Robert Gift, two questions. One, why would downshifting hurt the engine? What is the mechanism for damage (by the way, 115,000 miles and zero engine or transmission issues). Two, do you have any links to support the claim that the use of friction brakes is better?
I think they believe the "engine braking" adds wear and tear to the engine b/c of the extra revs experienced by the engine and the stress experienced by the transmission gears and engine crankshaft and pistons. But those are much lower stress level than during combustion. Does it add "rev" wears? Yes. But do they make a difference with a properly maintained engine and transmission? I don't think so. I certainly haven't seen any data backing it up...
15,000 miles is silly. Even with my "crazy" driving style as someone indicated, I change my brakes about every 80,000 miles. I do wear out tires every 30,000-36,000 miles.
My last car with 167,000 miles had only oen set of brakes pads replaced (with rotors later at 132k miles), still on original clutch and 5 sets of tires...
EVs and Hybrids will "tranform" traditional parts store, NOT eliminating them.
EVs will have different problems with different parts. Sure, Electric motor have far less moving parts, but it still has cooling system. It still has cabin and various parts in the cabin.
No cooling system to worry about, no lighting issues w/ the new LED lights. Rare problems
Like I said, majority of the reduced parts/maintanence are ICE related parts. But rest of the vehicle parts are the same...
Although many "do-it-yourself" home mechanics mostly work on parts related to the ICE, so that part of the business will suffer.
Parts stores just have to replace their ICE parts with IGBTs, Power MOSFETs, Capacitors, Resistors and various upgrade/repair parts for EVs...
Test and diagonastic tools will also be a part of their business...
Yes, many maintenance issues are reduced via EVs, but to claim that there is "no cooling system to worry about" is just wrong. And independent repair shops will still exist, at least the ones that adapt to the new vehicles of the future.
I disagree. I think auto mechanics just have to be re-trained to be highly skilled and their traning are no longer just "mechanical", they have to be proficient in electronics as well.
Cars still need tires, brakes, suspension and various lighting that all need certain repair over time.
But I do agree that single purpose shops such as Jiffy Lube who specialize in oil change will get impacted... But new "specialized" EV shops will pop up to replace those low skilled shops.
See if any of your local shop are willing to work on the Leaf or Volt.
My local Chevy dealer service tech couldn't even get the tire pressure right b/c it is different from the rest of the Chevy cars. (He assumed that it is the same as rest of the cars)...
My real annoyance with the dealership is that they tried to scare my wife in to getting new brake pads (on a 2000 Sienna) saying the pads were less than 3/32". I pulled the pads and found they were like new. The dealership mechanics are either crooks or incompetent (neither is good).
Anyway, finally replaced the pads at 60,000 miles because I was selling the car, however the pads still had a lot of life left.
Most modern cars have increasingly complex networked computer systems in them, and are getting more complicated. Many of them devoted just to keeing your internal combustion engine running as "efficiently" as possible.
You can't just blame that issue on hybrids and electrics. We are not in the 80s any more, we need to adapt - the same as many other industries have had to.
It's a serious phase change in the biz. Extrapolation of the old ways isn't gonna work. Anyone who claims they know what the field, market, or economics will look like is blowing smoke.
At some point brakes can be made light enough (cheap) to match the needs of EV's so that 35 to 40 thousand mile servicing is required again. If it is really that important for independent repair shops to have their hands constantly in our pockets, then engineer them to last for only 15 to 20 thousand EV miles.
Seriously, this is far-fetched. It will take 30-40 years to get 20-30% of vehicles on the road to be EV and Hybrids. Maybe his children and grand-children who may inherit his business may suffer but there is zero chance he has to fear business loss in his business lifetime. Looks like he has 20-years or so before retirement, he should be fine.
Don't be surprised if there isn't another cash for clunkers program sometime later this decade when folks will turn in vehicles that average 15 or 20 mpg and obtain vehicles that will average 40 or 50mpg. That will get a lot more of those frequent maintenance interval older cars off the road...along w/ much higher gas prices.
Tyically, in electronic industry, a 7ppm failure rate is industry average. For high power devices that rate is magnitudes higher depending on the stress level. Sure, proper thermal and derating design can allievate those problem or improve reliabilites, but it won't "elminate" those. Your typical home solar inverters (by Powerone) only warranty for 10 years for that simple reason. (Although Enphase will warranty 25 years). So, as the number of the EVs increase, you will see "ppm" related failures due to the number of electronic components used and number of cars out there.
Of course, those % are still going to be far lower than ICE related moving parts...
MrEnergyCzar
I tried the "eco" mode in the Leaf. It didn't do max regen until you press down on the brake slightly. I hope the 2013 Leaf would get you a "real" regen mode without going into "Eco" mode.
Shall I go on? Thousands of products in hundreds of industries die when things change.
Seriously John, did you talk to Joe about the word progress?
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