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If 63% Of Volt Miles Are Electric, Isn't It An Electric Car?

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2012 Chevrolet Volt

2012 Chevrolet Volt

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One of the most common complaints we get at GreenCarReports is that we refer to the 2012 Chevrolet Volt as an electric car. 

Because it has a range-extending gasoline engine, some say, it is only a plug-in hybrid and therefore not worthy to be classed as an electric car. 

As we’ve illustrated before however, the Volt spends more time as an electric car than you’d think

Even after 101 million collective miles, Chevrolet Volts spend most of their time in electric mode. 

As part of the Volt’s onboard OnStar telematic system, the odometer readings of each car are transmitted back to General Motors.

That data is then displayed on the Chevrolet Volt website in the form of an animated odometer which details how far all the Volts in the world have driven.

2012 Chevrolet Volt

2012 Chevrolet Volt

Enlarge Photo

Over the weekend, HybridCars noted that the combined mileage of all the Chevrolet Volts -- collected was close to topping 100 million miles

Four days later, the collective odometer stands at 101 million miles and counting, with almost 64 million of those miles being driven in electric-only mode. 

Those miles, Chevrolet calculates, have saved almost 3.4 million gallons of gasoline to date. 

With around sixty-three percent of all global Chevy Volt miles to date being made in electric mode, we think it’s about time the Volt is forgiven for having a gasoline engine and named an electric car. 

But what do you think? 

Let us know in the Comments below.

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Comments (198)
  1. As with the whole LGBT-ASDF(whatever) debate. Sometimes it is best to let people or things self-identify. EREV is as good a descriptor as anything. I say we use it. Any who knows, the self-identification may change somewhat over time (just sayin').
     
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  2. I totally AGREE with you !! The VOLT is an ELECTRIC CAR.

    And the guy writing those lines, is the proud owner of a VOLT AND a FOCUS ELECTRIC !! ;-)
     
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  3. Which one is faster in 0-60mph? :)
     
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  4. I have had my Volt since Halloween 2011 and just recently put gasoline in the tank. My goal (as I believe many Volt owners) is to be as electric as possible. See my stats: https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/269
     
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  5. Ditto. I've used 0.9 gal of gas since mid-May.
     
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  6. I had a Volt loaner for 3 days and used that much gas Ben. No way around it either. :(
     
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  7. Isn't the key point today that the leading "electric source" is coal, and essentially all of the balance is fossil fuels. It will be that way for the life of the Volt's that are sold today.
     
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  8. One problem at a time.

    In California, COAL based electricity is banned and renewables are coming online fast. The point is, the Volt technology provides a path to cleaner driving in the future, or in California's case, today.
     
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  9. And, plug-in cars are the only kind whose environmental impact diminishes over time as the grid gradually gets greener from older, dirtier coal plants being retired or retrofitted.
     
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  10. How are coal plants "dirtier" (dirtier is defined by air quality on this website) than gas plants? The regulations don't give coal plants a "pass" based on the fact that they are fueled by coal. Unlike natural gas plants, exhaust from coal plants undergoes many steps to make it as "clean" as a natural gas plant. A coal plant "dwarfs" a gas plant that is rated for the exact same wattage. The exhaust output of the coal plant is just as "clean" as natural gas exhaust. Lets stick to truths and not feel-good opinions, shall we?
     
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  11. If you're hinting toward solar, electric cars encourage efficient battery development, which is a main sticking point on solar.
     
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  12. James,

    I think you'll find a lot of folks who own Volts actually have solar panels at home that they charge from, or at least ensure an equivalent amount of electricity that they consume is generated from renewable sources...
     
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  13. There are more comments in this thread
  14. The definition of "hybrid" is that it is an offspring of two different breeds. (See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid?s=t&ld=1064)

    One of the main "selling" points of the Volt is that you have electricity (from the battery) when you want/need it (just like a 100% battery-powered car) but then also power (from the on-board gas-powered generator) when you need it--provided there's gas in the tank, JUST LIKE a conventional ICE car.

    In other words, the Volt is a "hybrid" vehicle.

    But now that so many people are finding that MOST Volts are driven in "electric-only" (actually "battery-only"?) mode, we want to call them "electric vehicles"--the SAME name generally given to range-anxious battery-only vehicles.

    Talk about CONFUSION!
     
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  15. So yes, one of the modes the Volt is capable of is hybrid. Many owners drive them 90% on battery power, some even more. Do those owners drive EV's?

    The Volt can be driven as a battery car for 40 miles using no gas, then as a hybrid, then be driven down hill adding to the battery's charge, then finish the drive all electric, again.

    Confusion? Yes, confusion;

    Though, an EV for the first 25 t0 50 miles. Then a "regular hybrid" seems to be a simple way to explain it.
     
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  16. Or itmay be driven only 22 miles in adverse winter conditions, with the gas engine coming on at times to warm the battery. Or it may be driven hour after hour in EV on a mild day in bumper to bumper traffic.
     
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  17. Jeff, no. You are using the word "hybrid" when you mean "parallel hybrid". The Volt is a serial hybrid. It behaves like an EV sometimes, and like a parallel hybrid other times. Volt has a gas tank and an combustion engine - it is clearly NOT an EV, it is by definition a hybrid. This is not a bad thing - I don't understand why Volt owners insist on calling them EV's. Why is being the worlds most versatile car and most sophisticated series hybrid a bad thing?
     
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  18. So, Volt is more than an EV. An EV that comes with its own way home without tow trucks.

    EREV is correct term where Hybrid is NOT...
     
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  19. EREV is a marketing term. The engineering term is "series hybrid". Both are correct, they're just terms from different disciplines.
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  20. There is NO hybrid mode before the battery range is gone (the limited EPA rated 35 miles)..
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  21. It is NOT confusion. It is just too advanced for most people to understand... It happens when you have cutting edge technology.
     
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  22. Well, only EV Purist are having issues with Volt as EV. B/c they are a bunch of EV snobs. They are exactly the reason the rest of the world think those EV owners are "nutjobs". AT the end of the day, Volt is the BEST thing to bridge the different between the two groups. Yet, Volt is getting attacked from both sides. This is truely a sad day for so called "green car" community...
     
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  23. So the volt is an all electric car that uses gas only as it needs it. But it still use's gas, right???
     
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  24. But is it an electric car? Can we call it an electric car? That's the crux of the question :)

    For my two cents? I think we can.
     
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  25. Nikki it just shows these owners have discovered they didn't need more range after all if they had bought a Leaf no doubt it would been a different story called range anxiety.
     
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  26. In the two gas trips that I took with my Volt, the Leaf wouldn't be able to get me home. So far, 1700 miles with only 4.3 gallon used in 3 occasions. Rest of them are all PURE EV...
     
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  27. Or is it worse? Is "Plug-in Hybrid" a dirty word among electric car fans?
     
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  28. Even ICE cars are "electric cars". They have a battery and the battery can be used to directly drive torque to the wheels (at least you used to be able to with a manual transmission before the advent of interlocks). I have used this technique to travel a few feet in a broken-down car.

    I don't think that makes it an "electric car" any more than I want to call a "hydrogen car" an "electric car".

    "Extended range electric vehicle" is long but descriptive.
     
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  30. Rest assured Volt owners: the car IS an electric car since its wheels are (essentially) always being powered by electricity, nothing else. If one argues that is uses gasoline to produce that electricity, well, so what? How do you think an all electric car's electricity is produced? With pixie dust? The Volt is merely carrying its own little power station aboard the car, which has the added benefit of avoiding energy power losses always encountered when drawing power from a source many miles from the device and avoids most of the cost of batteries.
     
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  31. Kent funny you mention using gasoline to produce electricity when electricity basically is used to pump crude out of the ground,through pipelines, out of ships,at refinerys and to pump the stuff into our tanks.Also that no energy loss ICE in the Volt is about the least energy efficient way of producing power,look it up.
     
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  32. But you don't have to. It is your choice. Stay under 40 miles per charge, you will be gas free for a long time....
     
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  33. but then you will have range anxiety
     
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  34. Just like your EVs. Therefore an EV...
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  35. The Chevy Volt is an Electric Vehicle with Extended Range. It's the best of both worlds; electric + petroleum. And the petroleum is only necessary in the rare circumstance that you hadn't had a chance to recharge. When developing the car, GM asked former EV1 drivers what they'd like to have in an electric car. Based on those dicussions, the Volt was born.
     
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  36. EV with Extended Range. By "Extended Range" you mean gas tank and ICE, right? If you put gasoline in your EV, you're doing it wrong.
     
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  37. PS: And at the end of the day, it's a really COOL car with cutting edge engineering and techology. Best of all and MOST importantly, it's really fun to drive, it's fast, responsive, and did I mention it's a CAR?!
     
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  38. Of course the Volt is a real EV. For the first 35 EPA rated grid powered miles. After that it becomes a real "GV", gasoline powered vehicle. Together that makes it a plug-in hybrid. It's not hard really...
     
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  39. LOL - try not to be so logical. the pickings must be small if we have to start writing articles about whether a car that uses both gas and electricity is an electric car.
     
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  40. Well, when your "pure EV" run out of battery range (same as the Volt does), your EV uses gas too b/c tow trucks use them to tow it home...

    Your Negative comment against the Volt is tiring. Present some new facts to backup your whining... Why don't you comment on some of the Leaf news today about its battery and price drop instead?
     
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  41. my negative comments about the volt ???

    it doesnt even come close to all of your positive comments about it.

    boy, talk about nerve.

    i heard a country song today that reminds me of your comment. the guy ate his cake, and had it to, and started a bakery on top of that.
     
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  42. I own one and I know exactly all the details, upside and downsides. All your negative points seem to be just what you "hear and see"... NO different from Rush's view of the world. Why don't get some real experience?

    You might think GM is NOT commiting truely to EV b/c it doesn't have a massive EV brand. Well, the sales of the Leaf prove it why it doesn't make sense. None of the top 3 automakers have "true" EVs that fit your definition. Maybe you should ask the consumers around to see why... How come you don't ever bash Toyota, Honda or Ford? None of them fully commit to EVs either. In fact, they all had EVs since the EV1 days and none of them did anything with it.

    Another fact, Prius is the single biggest threat to EVs today!!!!
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  43. Can anyone explain the difference between the operation of a Prius and a Volt? and I don't mean range.
     
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  44. Prius can NOT stay in EV mode if driven fast or hard. Volt can stay in REAL WORLD EV mode for as long as there charges in the battery.
     
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  45. Prius is a parallel hybrid - why most people refer to as "hybrid". Volt is a serial hybrid.
     
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  46. If by consensus the Volt is an electric car isn't the Prius as well?
     
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  47. Prius is NOT b/c it can NOT stay in EV mode up to its max speed with full range of operation...
     
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  48. Volt can't stay in EV mode either - it's got a planetary gear that engages the ICE to the wheels at high speed. Volt is not an EV, really any argument otherwise is silly. However, not being an EV is not an insult.
     
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  49. Incorrectct! ICE only engage the wheels at higher speed when the battery is depleted. Before that, the generator is engaged to lower the primary motor speed for higher efficiency. You can call it "dual Electric motor" mode.

    Well, Volt is FAR MORE than a typical EV. The people like EV enthusaist are "insulting" the Volt b/c their narrow brain can't appreciciate the complexity and advanced technology in the Volt.
     
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  50. Chris, incorrect.
     
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  51. Since when did max speed define whether its electric or not...it will run on electric within the electric speed range and battery range. You seem so screwed up over speed and accleration your willing to skew the definitions to your own end.If a car is capable of running under electric power regardless of its speed or range its operating as an EV plain and simple.This mode has no bearing whether it has an ICE on board or the connections to the wheels.The Prius will operate as an EV but not with the same performance as the Volt for lack of battery and software.
     
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  52. B/c Prius can't operate as EV in all condition and environment. You floor the car, ICE comes alive. Extreme cold or hot weather, IcE comes alive regardless battery range is there or not. Volt is all Electric regardless driving condition within its battery range same as EV (Prius can't).
     
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  53. Prius ICE starts in cold weather to produce heat for passengers, Doesn't the Volt?.I agree if aggressive performance is required it will kick in but what I am also saying it can if the driver requires it drive on electric only I have done it have you? You chastise others for not knowing the Volt but do you know the Prius?have you owned one? I have also driven my Prius from start with varying speeds up to forty on electric with the ICE running at a steady rpm as a generator.This proves to me if Toyota installed a larger battery and altered the software for the ICE to act "only" as generator on battery depletion they would in essence mimic the operation of the Volt.Note I didn't say performance so don't repeat the same old story of speed etc.
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  54. Volt is the MOST Complext and MOST advance car on the road. Volt is about choice (The American way). It gives you freedom. Freedom to choose between electricty or gas. If you stay within 35 miles, you won't ever use a drop of gas. If you NEVER plug it in, you will stay in hybrid mode for EVER. So, it gives owner the choice to choose between the two.
    Sure, you can compare it to Prius Plugin. But It is "impossible" to have a real life driving in the PIP without using a drop of gas... Don't believe me? Just race me in my Volt and your PIP will have its engine on and my Volt will stay in EV mode long leaving the PIP in the dust...
     
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  55. you say most complex, like it is a good thing - LOL.

    simple is a good thing.
     
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  56. Simple like how Nissan Leaf so its battery can be fried under the heat. Do you like them medium rare or done?
     
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  57. Freedom to choose between electricty or gas ..In other words the Volt is a compromise not a solution!
     
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  58. The best compromise in today's limited infrastructure is a solution.

    Engineering products has always been compromise. It is always about tradeoffs. Volt is the best in terms of realistic solution to the public. Do I love to have Tesla? Yes. But it is NOT the best compromise.
     
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  59. So would you like to tell us what the trade off is of the Volt since you've been been so forth coming on the attributes.
     
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  60. There aren't charging network anywhere. So, Volt is carrying its own "electricity charging network" onboard for range outside its battery range.

    Volt was built from ground up as an EV first and hybrid second.
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  61. Calling the Volt a "hybrid" b/c after 40 miles its gas mode starts is no different than calling Leaf or Focus EV "diesel hybrid" or HALF EVs b/c once their charges are gone, they have to towed by Diesel powered trucks...
     
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  62. The same can be said for any plug-in hybrid that has the same "all electric" range. Shall we call them all electric cars? I think the distinction needs to be made for the true electric cars.
     
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  63. No other plug-in hybrids has the same "all electric" range. Name me one that can stay in "all electric" range regardless the speed, load and environment...
     
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  64. No other plug-in hybrids has the same "all electric" range...oh its a plug in hybrid now I thought it was an EV.
     
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  65. Repeat after me, Volt is all electric within its battery range just like any EV (where no other plugin hybrid can do). Outside the battery range, Volt is a series/parallel hybrid where an EV is a dead weight...
     
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  66. To be clear, EV is ONLY an EV within its battery range (outside its range = dead weight). Volt is an EV within its battery range.

    So, call the Volt EV+..
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  67. We have 7100+ miles and 2.4 gal gas used. That seems like an battery vehicle.
     
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  68. It seems all the owners touting this fact could have bought a Leaf EV with twice the range but there is this psycological thing of range anxiety with an EV.
     
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  69. Well, the two times that I used gas, Leaf's range would have left me on the side of hwy...
     
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  70. see, look how much you could have really saved by buying a leaf, and renting a car for that 2.4 gallons of gas that you used.
     
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  71. So every time I need to go farther, I would have to rent a car. Stupid logic...

    How come you stop being a "cheerleader" to the links that you couldn't read?
     
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  72. Your logic of "renting a car" every time you need a longer range is the exactly the reason most the public think it is stupid to own a "limited" range EV...
     
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  73. like has been stated as before, range anxiety is in the minds of those who dont own an ev, by and large.
     
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  74. Apparently, you don't own EV either...
     
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  75. There are more comments in this thread
  76. Another point why Volt is electric. Volt is electric driven. So, who cares if gas engine generate power for it. Your battery does NOT store electricity. It stores in "chemical energy" form and converts it as you need it. By that logic, you are a "hybrid" as well..
     
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  77. Volt is not 100% driven by it's electric motor - it can (and does) use a planetary gear to drive the wheels with it's ICE when necessary. See 2010, there was a big stink about it.
     
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  78. dont tell that to xiaolong. he owns a volt and says he knows everything about it. just ask him.
     
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  79. Stop repeating that stupid link. Read that article yourself. It ONLY use ICE after battery range is depleted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUTSIDE ITS BATTERY RANGE. EVs do NOT function outside its battery range. Within the battery range, the Volt is ABSOLUTELY EV.
     
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  80. You don't call EVs outside its battery range electric. It is called a dead weight.
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  81. @Chris, please look it up before you tell me about it... You are starting to sound like EV Enthusiats who have "no real world" experience on any of these stuff...
     
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  82. yes chris, xiaolong knows all about the volt - and he will tell you so.
     
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  83. @Xiaolong, I don't need to look it up - I helped design it! If the Volt used it's gas engine to turn a generator exclusively, then I would agree with you that it's an EV. However, it does not. It in fact uses it's planetary gear to drive the wheels directly while in charge sustain mode. Yes, this happens after the 40 mile AER has been passed. That doesn't matter. What matters is the direct mechanical connection between ICE and wheels. That is what makes Volt a hybrid, and not an EV.
     
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  84. So, you admit that it happens ONLY AFTER 40 miles of battery depletion then?

    We finally got here!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So, within the battery charges, the ICE is NEVER ON regardless speed, environment and condition. I rest my case.
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  85. Let me be clear with my points. Volt is an "EV" within its battery range just like every other "EV". Outside its battery range, Volt is a hybrid series or parallel depending on speed. But other EVs are dead weight...

    I guess you have a reading problem. That is my point from the start. Within battery or outside battery range.. NO EVs can work outside battery range. That is the difference. But within the battery range, Volt is no different than any other EV...
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  86. @ Chris..- I helped design it! I'm curious can you enlighten us about your work. I studied the Volt drive system and saw several similar ideas from the Prius except the three clutches used to lock up the different planetary sets. This seems a more crude and maintenance prone way of doing it.Was it a work around to not infringe on Prius patents I wonder.Still clever how case rotation of the small motor is used to electrically connect the ICE to final drive instead of using a solid connection.
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  87. Oooo, Nikki, it looks like you hit a nerve with some of the regular posters, but then again that was probably your original intent, wasn't it?

    I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting tired of this click-bait journalism.
     
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  88. Chris,

    Sorry the post isn't to your taste, but this is a real and genuine question we're trying to answer. We often get folks criticising the Volt for not being a real electric car. In the past, we've even had readers comment that it should only be compared with cars like the Plug-in Prius.

    Similarly, the 2012 Fisker Karma gets a lot of criticism for the same reasons...
     
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  89. i gotta chuckle - there are indeed gm people reading this site, whose sole goal is to place minus signs on anything that even slightly hints at being negative toward gm.

    they look absolutely ridiculous. it is so obvious.

    i wonder if gm is dumb enough to actually be playing a part in it ?
     
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  90. I am so sick of your stupid comments and negativity towards the Volt. why don't you comment on the $5k off MSRP article on the Leaf and explain to me why your "pure EV" doesn't sell...
     
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  91. i already did on the other thread. try to keep your comments in the threads in which they belong.
     
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  92. @EV enthusiast,

    It is NOT negativity toward GM. I could care less about some of their other crappy cars. But I defend the Volt and its approach to "green EV" solution. I even backed it up by buying one and talking another coworker of mine into buying one.

    What have you done so far in helping "green" technology beside bashing GM for your sorry memory of EV1?

    This is indeed a sad day for "green car community" when EV Purist are trying attack one of the best thing to bridge the population into EV of the future. This is exactly when the oil company are laughing and love the so called "in fighting" caused by the EV snobs...
     
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  93. i already explained to you gm's real intent with the volt - when one bases his conclusions on evidence, one is more apt to be correct.

    feel free to continue believing that gm is ev-friendly, despite all the evidence contrary to that conclusion.
     
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  94. What evidence? Your view is so biased that you can't see straight. Nissan might make a "true EV" attempt but it is an incomplete or poor attempt with no battery cooling and no battery warranty. That is the MOST important piece of the EV technology.

    Do you even own an EV?
     
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  95. LOL - i wont discuss this with you any further - just a waste of time.
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  96. Xiaolong Li in my post about the Prius I was trying to point out the Volt is not unique.The Prius for the last decade has been electric and the two cars are capable of the same thing only Toyota did not choose to configure the Prius in the same way.A Prius with comparable battery pack and software upgrade would do the same as a Volt.I have nothing against the Volt but your over the top enthusiasm for it (Volt is the MOST Complext and MOST advance car on the road) while trashing all others is why I am pointing this out to you.You obviously do not know the internal workings of the Prius and how close the Volt is to the Prius with the exception of a potentionally maintenance prone three clutch system missing on the Prius.
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  97. @Don Gatewood,

    How is Prius the same? Prius does NOT have the motor powerful enough to accelerate the car as the Volt does. Prius's motor is DC permanent. Volt's motor is 3-phase AC Induction. Even with a bigger battery and a software upgarde, Prius with existing so called "synergy" system will NOT be able to power the Prius to its max speed or have anywhere close the acceleration as the Volt.

    Volt's power electronic controllers systems are FAR MORE complex and advanced than Toyota's DC controller (that is by design for cost saving). Volt's battery cooling/heating system is also far more complex than advanced than Toyota's battery system.

    Even the tires on the Volt is more performance based (215 vs 185) than the Prius...
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  99. GM's intent is build something that Public wants. Apparently, so far the Public has spoken. They do NOT want the crappy version of the EVs that you have defined!!! Nuff said there with all the sales number.
     
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  100. darn - only 1 negative vote so far. come on you gm trolls. you can do better than that !!!!
     
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  101. hey I thought? i wont discuss this with you any further - just a waste of time.
     
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  102. that comment was not directed to xialong, or cant you read ?
     
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  103. fact ? get serious.

    no hybrid, including the prius and volt, are any threat to the ev industry. the hybrid will die a quick death, despite all your efforts to get your friends to buy volts.

    i am sure they will thank you when they realize it is obsolete in a few years !!!

    gm's intent with the volt was to slow it down some, cuz they are aligned with big oil.

    if gm had wanted to help, they would have put out a real ev.

    as it is, they are now putting out a compliance ev.

    try to see the evidence for what it is, not what you want it to be.

    since you are a newcomer, i will forgive you - i have openly knocked toyota, fyi.

    but they aint half as bad as your beloved gm.
     
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  104. "the hybrid will die a quick death",....13 years and counting!
    I do agree with you they were cautious but only to appease the American buyer over range anxiety not your hidden accusations. All these volt owners staying in the electric range are doing the true EV a service as its educating Americans that range anxiety is more a psychological problem than real.Its not all GMs fault but the reluctance of the buyer to take the plunge.
     
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  105. i am talking here on out, not backwards.

    at the time, the prius was indeed a help towards the environment.

    hybrid technology, like the volt, will have a short lifespan.

    you have more complications under the hood than an ev.
     
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  106. c'mon I don't think you can tell the future, can you?
    I fully agree an electric is better and motors in the wheels even more so but will hazard a guess it will take a while for wide spread acceptance.The automotive world does not move that fast.
     
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  107. i cant tell the future. but i can tell you that the volt hybrid technology, or the prius hybrid technology will go the way of the dinosaur as the ev industry matures.

    the prius was at least of help, cuz when it came out, that was all that we had.

    gm comes out with the volt at the same time we have the leaf. its only purpose was to help delay the hopefully inevitable.

    and at the same time, they are coming out with a compliance ev. man, even someone with a quarter of a brain (not directed at you) would be able to figure that out.
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  108. GM came out with the Volt with MORE mature technology instead of Leaf with battery problem and no warranty. Even the compliance EV by John V is arguable b/c GM hasn't give him any information.

    Apparently,, you don't even have a brain. All you have is hate toward anything that GM touches. Did you get burned by the old GM stocks or bonds or something? Get a clue and get a life.
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  109. You just proved your terrible points. So far it looks like your beloved Leaf are doing terrible and getting worse with all the problems. Toyota is just as terrible. Its high MPG hybrid will ONLY slow down the adoption of pure EV as it creates even higher price and TCO barrier to justify a pure EV.

    You have no clue what you are talking about EV. Ever since I was in college, I was on the EV and hybrid team. I was also part of the college solar EV race team. I know more about EVs than you will ever know.

    You still haven't answered the question. As a person who "hide" behind the name tag of "EV enthusiasts", how many EVs have you owned and what EV do you current drive?
     
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  110. The friend of mine who bought the Volt will NEVER consider an EV. Volt was the best thing to get people like her to save gas and try out "electric experience". Your attitude is exactly why so many people out there are against EVs for your simple snobbish attitude.
     
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  111. i did answer that question, in the thread in which it was originally asked.

    as i told you before, keep your comments in the one thread.
     
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  112. My friends wouldn't buy an EV anyway. Buying a Volt is by far the BEST THING for naysayers to try out something electric. Your attitude is by far the MOST terrible thing to a "green car community". That is why most of the public think people like you are "green nutjobs"...

    I have been involved in various EV and projects since college days. I even was a member of the Solar (sun race)EV team. I have been involved with EVs for a long time. What kind of EVs do you own?

    Also, hybrids such as Prius are big threats to EVs b/c they present the largest price barrier to buyer to make sense at current or even higher gas price.

    GM put out the best solution to get most timid public to try out something electric.
     
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  113. There are more comments in this thread
  114. Xiaolong Li - If you stay within the 35-40 mile range for weeks/months using only battery power, does it ever become an issue with gas going stale over time?
     
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  115. Richard the info is out there do a search!
     
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  116. Eventually, it will. The Volt computer will eventually warn you about it and if you still don't respond, eventually it will turn on the engine the next time you drive it and burn off the gas. The User Manual also tell you if you plan to be in EV mode most of the time, fill no more than 1/3 of the tank.
     
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  117. There was no link to answer your previous response so will do it here.Thanks for you concern over my ignorance of the Volt but I have read everything produced on the Volt and Prius,owned two hybrids over 12 yrs,driven the Leaf mule two years before most knew about it,owned one EV so feel confident about my comments stating the volt is basically nothing different.Performance wise yes never said different,the Prius and Volt are both electric regardless of performance difference's.The ICE can kick in as generator or to help performance on either car.You seem stuck on performance I am not debating this only that they work the same.Put the larger battery in the Prius with software to control, upgrade the motor and eureka a Volt!
     
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  118. WRONG! VOLT's ENGINE will NEVER kick in to assist electic motor like Prius. Prius's MOTOR is NOT powerful enough to power the Prius to its max speed.

    If you are start to "include" upgrade and after market mods, then all condtions have changed. I can mod the Volt with SW and take the engine out and add more battery it will be just like the LEAF...
     
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  119. WRONG! The Volt engine will kick in to assist the electric motor, just like the Prius. There was a lot of controversy about it, which actually started this whole "not a true EV" nonsense.
    http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html
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  120. You need a reading lesson...
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  121. Do you even have a Volt or ever driven a Volt? I am willing to bet a Volt that it will NOT use ICE at all before the battery is depleted.

    Do some real research on facts before you repeat stupid blogs...
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  122. There are more comments in this thread
  123. Thank you, Xialong. I read these articles because I AM researching the issues - just hadn't found the answer to that question, until your assistance. Thanks again.
     
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  124. Here are some links to educate you about the Volt technology and why they are more complex and more advanced...

    http://www.driveforinnovation.com/teardown/volt-battery-teardown/

    http://www.driveforinnovation.com/teardown/powertrain-teardown/
     
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  125. Here is a simple way to put it. Volt is as electric as any other EVs. Here is why:

    Volt will use gas when its battery range is gone. Well, all other EVs such as Leaf, Focus EV and Tesla will also use gas once their battery ranges are gone! They will be towed by a gas/diesel powered truck! Within the battery range, the Volt will perform just like the Leaf, Focus EV and Tesla up to their own respective max speed in PURE EV mode in all conditions. (Prius Plugins can't. That is why it is NOT the same as the Volt).
     
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  126. @ Xiaolong Li... Let me get this straight when a Prius moves off on electric and goes its max distance on electric energy it is not an electric car during that mode.We are looking at definitions here not speed or distance can't you comprehend that?
    All these cars are electric when under this mode of power and if hybrid owners choose to stay in this mode it doesn't change the definition of the metal in the driveway. A hybrid is a hybrid, an EV is an EV.
    To say otherwise is like calling your car a wagon or trailor if its being towed.
     
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  127. You didn't get it straight... Floor your PIP, its gas engine comes on. Floor your Leaf, it is in EV mode. Floor your Volt, it is in EV mode. Go to each car's MAX SPEED, Volt and Leaf are still in Electric mode, Prius WILL NOT.
     
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  128. This link to a GM statement about the Volt ICE driving the wheels...http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/gm-admits-chevy-volts-gasoline-engine-can-power-the-wheels-so-is-it-still-special.html
     
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  129. Read your own link: "(once the initial plug-in power has been depleted)"
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  130. Xiaolong, before criticizing other people's reading skills maybe you should work on your own. Here, I'll help:
    "In fact the gasoline engine can power the wheels, but only in addition to the electric motor powering the wheels and only under certain circumstances. One example.."
    You see that "One example" part? That means this is one situation in which the wheels are powered by ICE. There are others, which as of yet have not been publicly disclosed.
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  131. NOT before battery is depleted. I keep mention that point and you keep ignoring it...
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  132. A link for you what GM says.. http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/gm-admits-
     
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  133. ONLY AFTER the BATTERY is depleted...

    You either need to improve your reading skill or get some hands on experience!!!!!
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  134. No, Xiaolong. The Volt will use it's ICE before the battery is depleted. It's called "Dual motor electric mode". You refuse to admit the existence of this mode - despite it being pointed out to you repeatedly.
    It's great that you love your Volt and are proud of it. I'm pretty proud of it myself, since I worked on the engine controller for it. But you are repeating false information and claiming authority over it's correctness. The Volt is a parallel hybrid. It gives you many of the benefits of an EV, without it's largest negative (range), and with a minimum of compromises to accomplish this. It's a great car - but it is not an EV, nor is it intended to be.
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  135. "worked"... NO longer.

    There is actually a "three motor" mode where ICE, generator and traction motor are all on. But that is only after battery depletion. Within the battery mode, only the generator spins up to reduce the speed of traction motor to increase efficiency where ICE stay fixed...
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  136. @Chris,

    The Duel MOTOR mode is the Electric traction motor AND Generator MOTOR are both on. ICE stays off.

    Don't believe me, drain your gas tank and drive the Volt...

    You don't even have a Volt to prove it...

    Maybe the Green Car Reports staff can verify this and post the "facts" once for all...
     
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  137. You want the facts, here they are from SAE's point of view (taken from Chevy Volt wikipedia page):
    "The Society of Automotive Engineers' (SAE) definition of a hybrid vehicle states that the vehicle shall have "two or more energy storage systems both of which must provide propulsion power, either together or independently."[16] General Motors has avoided the use of the term "hybrid" when describing its Voltec designs, even after the carmaker revealed that in some cases the combustion engine provided some assist at high speeds or to improve performance. ... According to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) definitions, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid vehicle, due to the combination of an internal combustion engine and two electric motors."
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  138. Well, SAE consider the "entire" operation mode of the Volt. I never argued against that. I have always been clear that before battery is depleted it is an EV. After depletion, it is a hybrid. So, SAE consider that as a hybrid b/c it has "extended" range mode.

    My point has been within battery range, Volt is an EV. You keep bring up the extended range where the ICE can power the wheel directly through the ring gear.

    I guess if you really worked on the Volt as you claim, then GM really had a bunch of bad engineers b/c their own engineers don't even know the detail of the car.

    BTW, I have friends working at GM. I am going to verify to see if you actually work there.
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  139. Xiaolong, you're creating an awfully complicated definition of "True EV" so that you can qualify the Volt. How about an EV is "a Vehicle that runs on Electricity". By that definition, the Volt is a hybrid. Granted, it behaves like an EV a lot of the time - but we are talking about what it "is", not what it "behaves like".
     
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  140. xialong do something to make the volt look good ? - you gotta be kidding me !!!!!!!
     
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  141. Only you can't see why Volt is better than EVs. Volt is an EV within its battery range SAME AS ANY OTHER EV. But once the charges are depleted, it will power itself home instead of calling a tow truck and getting towed home by gas/diesel trucks.

    Volt is the ONLY true EV b/c it is the ONLY one that actually warranty its battery capacity. NONE Of your so called EV posers do!
     
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  142. Most of you failed to see the true fact that an EV is operating as an EV within its battery range
    regardless of environment, speed and driver input.

    Does the car have battery and electric motors?

    Leaf: Yes. Volt: Yes. Prius: Yes.

    Does the car have electric motor as main power and it is powered by battery?

    Leaf: Yes. Volt: Yes. Prius: No (only in certain conditions even within its battery range).

    Does the car stay in all Electric mode with its battery power for all environment and speed?

    Leaf: Yes. Volt: Yes. Prius: No.
     
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  143. Your Quote: "Most of you failed to see the true fact that an EV is operating as an EV within its battery range"
    Also true of the Prius anyone can prove this by driving one.
     
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  144. Prius can NOT do that at all speed and all environment... Volt can...
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  145. Let me correct that for you:

    Does the car stay in all Electric mode with its battery power for all environment and speed?
    Leaf: Yes. Volt: NO. Prius: No.

    In Dual Motor Electric Mode, the Volt will in fact turn on the ICE at highway speeds (and in other not publicly disclosed conditions) before the battery is depleted.
    And thank you for making my point. You've responded to my criticism of your overly complex definition of "true ev" by making it even more complicated. The Volt is not an EV - nobody at GM would say it was (except for the marketing group, but they don't count). It's a parallel hybrid designed to give you all the things people love about EV's without the things they dislike about them.
     
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  146. @ Chris,

    You are so WRONG on this. Volt does NOT turn on the engine before the battery has depleted. Please go to your nearest Chevy Dealer and test drive the car. You can verify whether the engine is on by simply put a temp sensor on the engine to see if it is ever on during your HWY testing.

    I have verifed this with my Volt. Like I said, please read your various links against before you stick to WRONG point again. In the dual motor mode, it is the "generator" that gets turned on in addition to the "traction" mode. ICE stays fixed...
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  147. Another proof for you, if what you say is true (which is NOT), how come I did NOT burn a drop of gas for the last 4 weeks commutinng at average speed of 76mph (I admit that I speed)? So, either the engine is magically on without burning gas or my gas gauge is wrong...
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  148. Your Quote:"the Volt will perform just like the Leaf, Focus EV and Tesla up to their own respective max speed in PURE EV mode in all conditions"
    In all conditions? I don't think so the engine contributes as well to the drive wheels at range depletion. http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/gm-admits-
     
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  149. After battery depletion, YES. Before, NO.

    You trust a blog over an owner who have verified this?
     
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  150. Did you even read that page? Please read it, that page just confirmed my facs that after depletion...
     
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  151. All that's needed is a simple explanation on the sticker for the range of each onboard fuel source. Eg ev40/gas300 for the volt. For the leaf ev100, for the Prius, ev2/gas300

    Apologies if the ranges are wrong, I live in a country where we use kilometres!
    And if when CNG, Hydrogen, propane, etc come into the picture, add them in too...
     
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  152. A remarkably sane, well thought out idea.

    It'll never work ;)
     
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  153. The Volt is a PHEV = plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. It is still electrically driven even with the gas engine running the generator which keeps the battery sufficiently charged for the electric drive motor to keep on motoring.

    The Toyota PIP is a PHGV - a plug-in hybrid gasoline vehicle. Its gasoline engine's primary responsibility is to drive the car, either in support of the electric motor or by itself. Its all-electric range is a fraction to that of the Volt, real world breakdown between electric and gas will probably be more gas than electric.
     
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  154. Please read this link..http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/gm-admits-chevy-volts-gasoline-engine-can-power-the-wheels-so-is-it-still-special.html
     
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  155. I guess your reading skill involved only reading the title or highlighted area. This is quoted from your link: "What this all means is that the Volt first operates as an electric vehicle, and then it switches to be both a series hybrid (extended range electric vehicle) and a parallel hybrid (like the Prius) depending on the type of driving."
     
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  156. check this link for GMs statement on the Volt drive system
    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/gm-admits-
     
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  157. You need some reading skills..
    "What this all means is that the Volt first operates as an electric vehicle, and then it switches to be both a series hybrid (extended range electric vehicle) and a parallel hybrid (like the Prius) depending on the type of driving."
    Before battery is depleted, it is an EV. After battery depletion it is a complex hybrid where a depleted EV is a dead weight.
     
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  158. You have very much confused what the Volt "is" with what the Volt "behaves like". The Volt IS a hybrid. The Volt BEHAVES like an EV sometimes, and like a parallel hybrid other times. The fact that it can switch it's behavior is by definition what makes it a hybrid. You seem to think "hybrid" is a insult - it is not. I think the Volt is a phenomenal car. It's not an EV, it just behaves like one. Kind of like how a computer screen is not a television, but it can behave like one. The fact that it allows you to watch video doesn't change what it is. It's not a TV, it's a computer monitor. The distinction is in it's construction, not it's ability.
     
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  159. Monitor to TV is a bad example. It is more like a computer w/monitor to a TV. A Computer with tuners can be a TV and a computer. A TV is just a TV. Volt is an EV "and" more...
     
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  160. Apparently, you can't follow simple logic - so I'm done with you. It's the "and more" in your comment that - by definition - makes it a hybrid. If you can't understand that, then really you can't be reasoned with. You're argument boils down to "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it's a duck!" Turns out, it's actually a platypus. Good luck, I'm done beating my head against this wall.
     
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  161. Let me put it this way, Can you operate the Volt without gas and just depend on its battery in all speed and conditions without any gas (in the same way as it had gas within its battery range)? If you answered no. You need to try a Volt out in your local Chevy Dealer. I am willing to bet that you either did NOT work on the Volt or Volt has changed since you worked there.

    Platpus doesn't fly like a Duck or quacks like a duck.. Mammal can't even "act" like birds..
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  162. The Volt certainly has changed since I worked on it - I was in research, and they handed it off to production a long time ago. The fact that Voltec is a hybrid drivetrain really doesn't require any special knowledge however, just the ability to read. And also, really? birds are not mammals? Now I'm starting to think you're just trolling these boards - and like an idiot I've been feeding you.
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  163. Still the fact that you can't deny that Volt can operate in "PURE EV" mode without any input of the engine within its battery range.

    Voltec power train is designed to tranform between PURE EV or series hybrid or parallel hybrid depending on whether the ring gear (ICE) is locked or not, planet gear (generator), or sun gear (main traction motor). In "battery" mode, Ring gear is always locked, NO ICE input. When speed gets high, the generator spins up the planet gears to reduce the speed of sun gear (traction motor) to make it more efficent, but NEVER the ICE. thus makes it an EV. In extended mode, the ICE will only come on at 70mph+ to spin the ring gear to feed power directly in.
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  164. There are more comments in this thread
  165. and i forgot to mention - gm specifically tried to instill range anxiety in people when they advertised their volt.

    they had the nerve to come out and advertise against the real evs.

    so now it comes down to 1/8 of a brain to realize that gm is not ev-friendly.
     
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  166. That is b/c those are facts. That is #1 public fear of the EVs. GM build the Volt to remove that fear while allowing people to get use to the EV as much as they can.

    Only are BRAIN Dead poser like you are against it... Shame on you for even trying to be "green" on Green Car Reports!

    Hidding behind your "login" name is just another fact that you are a poser.
     
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  167. boy, you are hilarious. they built the volt to remove the fear, and at the same time advertised to the public that evs would leave them stranded?

    making your statements look silly is lots of fun.

    if gm is paying you, they better find someone new.
     
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  168. Because those are facts. EV1 (your favorite subject) had famous stranding for their owners. Tesla and Leaf all their shares of owners running out of chargers (even it is their own fault for pushing the limit).

    You are absolutely funny in the fact that I have defeated you in every arguement that you have presented so far in attacking the Volt. Especially with the facts that you don't even know enough about the Volt to attack it as shown by your cheerleading the links that you didn't even read yourself... Now, you have to attack GM's ads of Volt? You are truly pathetic! You should change your poser login name to "Pathetic EV poser".
     
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  169. You are absolutely funny in the fact that I have defeated you in every arguement that you have presented so far in attacking the Volt.....in your own mind!
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  170. at this point, i have nothing else to say.

    i am perfectly content to allow the rest of the readers to make their own decisions, based upon what the both of us have written.
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  171. Did I need to remind you to read your own "links" before posting? In your last comment, it is very obvious your own link page just supported my arguement even more...
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  172. @Xialong, @EV Enthusiast: This is your friendly site moderator, weighing in with a reminder that while we encourage robust debate on the issues, we do NOT condone calling each other names.

    Please avoid using words like "brain dead" and "stupid" to describe other commenters. I would hate to have to start moderating comments that have otherwise been entertaining to read.

    GCR's Terms of Use are linked directly from every comment box. Please read and comply with them. Thank you!
     
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  173. hi john,

    the last time you gave me a friendly warning, i happily admitted that i understood.

    this time i am calling you on the carpet. there have been quite a few posts in which xiaolong could have been admonished, but was not.

    i dont have a thin skin, so it was not bothering me. so i never complained. and i still am not complaining about anything he said.

    but there is no way that you should be including me in this warning. he has been calling me names quite a few times, and i have not retaliated in kind.

    i have poked fun at the silliness of his "statements", but that is all. i have not called him brain-dead, or told him to get a life, etc.
     
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  174. @John,

    Thanks for reminding me. I am sorry for Name calling. but it is frustrating that 3 people who don't have the car and who can't even read their own links keep repeating the false information.

    Maybe as Green Car Report staff, you guys can post the "Facts" about how the Volt work in EV mode so we can settle this once for all. After all, isn't this what green reporting is about?
     
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  175. "According to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) definitions, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid vehicle, due to the combination of an internal combustion engine and two electric motors, along with a battery that can accept off-board energy."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
    Of course GM disagrees with this for political reasons (they want Volt to be classified as a EV so it qualifies for tax subsidies), but that's irrelevant.
     
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  176. Hybrid - A hybrid is defined by SAE [4] as: “A vehicle
    with two or more energy storage systems both of which
    must provide propulsion power – either together or
    independently.”
    http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/microsites/product/volt/docs/paper.pdf
     
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  177. Within the battery range, Volt is battery only EV... After battery range, Volt is a hybrid.

    Definition get changed and modified. Even the EV charging standard are constantly changing..
     
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  178. If you don't EVER use the engine, does Volt qualify as a hybrid?

    If I carry a Honda geneator onboard a Nisan Leaf and have a cable ready to go to charge the battery after the battery is depleted, does it make the Leaf a hybrid?
     
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  179. The Volt was built as a Hybrid the Leaf with a portable generator is still an EV.
    Its like if you choose to coast down the highest mountain does that make your car a soap box racer? You do know what that is don't you?
     
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  180. Volt was built to be better than a Hybrid or an EV...

    As far as EV attributes go, Volt was also better prepared to operate as an EV than Leaf. Volt has liquid battery cooling (as in Focus EV and Tesla, all american engineering) where Leaf (passive), Pip (fan) and Miev (fan) are non liquid cooled (Japanese engineering to save money). Volt is also the ONLY one to have battery warranty (essential for EVs).

    Another fact, liquid cooled batteries are better prepared for FAST charging than passive/fan cooled batteries. That also shows Volt is better designed from ground up to be a "full EV"...
     
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  181. I guess even Chris finally admit that ICE does NOT come on until battery is depleted or in range "extension" mode...
    In a way, you can call Volt a "transformer". Transforming between EV and hybrid. But a platpus can't tranform between bird and mammal, it only had the characteristics of the two. But Volt can "tranform" between the two forms.
    That is why Volt is superior b/c of its "transforming" ability... :)
     
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  182. Now, Chris is arguing for definition of hybrid instead of whether ICE is powering the wheel during the battery EV mode.

    Chris, are you willing to bet your job on whether the ICE comes up or not during "EV mode"? I am still waiting for you to publically declare that you are wrong on that.
     
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  183. Here is another fact, EPA window stickers...
    Prius Plugin is labeled as "Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle".
    http://www.greencarreports.com/image/100383903_2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-hybrid-window-sticker-showing-epa-fuel-efficiency-ratings
    Volt is labeled as "Dual Fuel Vehicle".
    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1060583_new-fuel-economy-label-highlights-electric-cars-plug-ins
    Now, 2013 Volt will have a change where it allows driver to disable the all electric mode first to "delay" it until later use. 2013 Volt might get labled as "Plug In Hybrid" after that.
     
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  184. Chris Teague (who claimed to have "worked" on the Voltec powertrain, but past tense indicates he NO LONGER works on it) said:
    "
    1. Single motor electric - EV mode
    2. Dual motor electric - EV + ICE assist
    3. Single motor extended - ICE mode
    4. Dual motor extended - parallel hybrid mode
    Mode #2 is the one that violates your understanding of the Volt. At highway speeds, and before the battery is depleted, the planetary gear connects the ICE to the wheels for better efficiency. In other words, get in your Volt, get on the highway, drive 30 miles. Check how much gas you've used, it will be non-zero. "

    I commute to my work EVERYDAY in the Volt. I charge it at work and at home. 25 miles each way. up to 85mph on the hwy. 0.0 gal used!!!!!!
     
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  185. Just so you know, the so called "Dual Motor" mode is "Traction motor" and "generator motor" on at the same time to reduce traction motor speed by spinning up the planet gears powered by the generator motor.

    It is SAD that you can't even find a "lab/pilot" Volt from GM to try it out.

    Also, do you "STILL" work for GM? If so, why don't you ask your manager for a "pilot Volt" to test it out and see if the "current production Volt" still acts the same as "when you WORKED" there....
     
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  186. GM allows its engineers to take just about any model home for "evaluation" purpose for up to 30 days. Why don't you sign yourself up for that program and try it out?

    Maybe after you "LEFT" the Voltec program, other people felt it was better to "stay in EV" mode and change the code without you knowing it. Or they did it AFTER you left the company and no longer up to date on the information...

    The only 2 instances where the engine will start with full battery is service and maintaince mode. Service mode where hood is open and car is parked. Gas maintainence mode is another when the gas is deemed to be "stale" by the computer...
     
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