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Etiquette For Electric-Car Charging: Debates Heat Up Over Who Goes First

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Electric cars at charging stations at Disney Family Museum, San Francisco [photo: Wendy Bartlett]

Electric cars at charging stations at Disney Family Museum, San Francisco [photo: Wendy Bartlett]

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Pull up to an occupied gas pump, and chances are you'll have to wait five minutes max for the car in front to vacate the spot.

Arrive at an occupied electric car charging space and you may be in for quite some wait--and debate on who should get priority at EV charging spots is beginning to escalate.

PluginCars has come up with a rather handy list of the eight rules of electric vehicle charging etiquette, some more pertinent than others to the frustrating issue of being blocked out of a space.

It's all sensible stuff--move your car if you're done charging, leaving notes to ask another owner to plug in your car after they've finished with theirs, that sort of thing.

But etiquette extends further--which cars deserve a charge more than any others? Should battery-electric vehicles get priority over plug-in hybrids, since they have no backup power source? Many owners think they should--leading to plenty of tension between both groups.

What about the latest issue, where some battery-electric vehicle owners are finding Teslas occupying a charger all day--even though they may not need the extra few hundred miles of range that day. PluginCars covers this too, advising charging "only when necessary". Ten mile commute and 300-mile range? Why not leave the charger for the guy who may have a fifty mile commute and a seventy-mile range?

Still, the one thing everyone agrees on: If you're not driving some form of plug-in vehicle, don't park in a plug-in spot.

It's irritating to find another electric vehicle occupying a space without needing a charge, but finding a regular, non plug-in car there (known as "ICEing", blocking by cars with internal combustion engines) is just ridiculous.

But we'd like to hear from our readers: How do you handle charging station etiquette? Have you ever been ICEd?

Have you ever needed to unplug another plug-in car to get home? Leave your comments below.

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Comments (100)
  1. I think people who plug-in who don't need a charge, is actually a form of range anxiety. They don't need to limp form station to station especially not Tesla or plug-in hybrid owners. And being ICEd should be a ticketable offense, if someone parks in a pace clearly marked "electric vehicles only" with signs and they park their gas or diesel vehicle they have clearly parked against posted parking rules. As for etiquette among plug-in drivers, if you need a charge and plan to stay a while I think you are ok to stay until your ready, first come first serve. Don't take a charging space just because it's there, take it only if you need it. I also don't think PHEVs need to charge publicly at all but like I said earlier, first come first serve.
     
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  2. This weekend my family went to the museum 53 miles away. I knew they had three free stations. We went early to make sure I got a charge. The museum opened at 10 a.m. and I arrived at 10:15 to find all three plugs being used. Two Volts, one which was already full and a Leaf.

    As luck would have it, the Leaf owner arrived to get something out of his car. I asked if he would be long, explaining that I couldn't make it back home without a charge. He said that he lived close by, so he would let me have his space. Whew! I thanked him profusely and he saved the day.

    My experience underlined an important point. EV drivers need to realize that showing up in your plug-in hybrid doesn't entitle you to park in an EV space because it's convenient.
     
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  3. The most important part of EV parking etiquette is that once your car is charged, MOVE IT! You may be denying someone the ability to make it home. As more and more EV's arrive, this very important point has to be followed, or many of us will be left very frustrated.
     
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  4. Parking in a charging space is going to be just as random as any other space, you can't really say when any one space will be empty or full. The one thing we need to stop first is ICEing, if there are posted signs that say EV parking only anything without a plug needs to be ticketed or towed. Then we can worry about politeness.
     
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  5. Douglas Kerr,

    "You may be denying someone the ability to make it home"

    Not really, with the money and complexity that you saved over a PHEV/EREV, you are always a tow truck call away or taxi away from getting home.

    I don't feel sorry for your bad planning.
     
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  6. I think that Free charging may be fine but there should be a time charge for the parking spot, that way people have an incentive to move. If the slot is at least a dollar an hour and 2X the price of a standard slot people would have an incentive to move when no longer charging. Or increase the parking space rate when no longer charging.
     
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  7. I don't see your point. The fact that someone was nice enough to move his car means that plug in hybrids don't have the right to charging spots? That makes absolutely no sense.
     
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  8. not surprised a LEAF driver (who also does not have a gas backup option or a HUGE battery) would be the most accommodating. its easy to be helpful when you have been in the "gotta charge or else" situation.
     
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  9. It's obviously impossible to predict how badly someone else may need a given EVSE. However it's trivially easy to be nice and accommodating, and have a note e.g. in the charging dock (Leafs are great for that) with contact info:
    "Need the charger? Call or text me at ..."

    I've seen various cards up behind windshields to the same effect, also with messages like:
    "Feel free to unplug me after:" and then a paperclip pointing to a specific time, with one option being "anytime".

    Things like this should be the norm, sadly today they look a bit more like the exception...
     
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  10. Is "charging station etiquette" really the problem? Since majority of public stations require payment, it seems logical that first EV to arrive is first in queue to charge. "Parking" at a charge station is another issue; i.e. plugging in & not charging, ore leaving vehicle "parked" after charging completes.

    Charging by "kWh" and not by "time", or plug "session" would better convey that a charge station is a service "delivery" spot and not a "parking" spot. The speed that electricity delivered to EVs can greatly effect public charge time. At a slow 3.3 kW/hr charging rate, it can take a LEAF or Volt 5-7 hours; 26 hours for a Model S to reach capacity.

    Also, if charge stations seeing high on going usage, then it's time to add more stations.
     
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  11. What is really needed are charge speeds of 15-30 kW/hr. A LEAF, or Volt could charge in approx 1 hour. Japan has a many quick charge stations of 20-30 kW/h (similar to 50 kW/h DC charger, but with lower installation costs).

    The average power an EV uses per mile is similar regardless if a Leaf S, or a Tesla Roadster. In 5 years when the average EV has a battery capacity that enables traveling 120-200+ mies; charging on today's charge station will take longer and longer.

    Perhaps we need to consider future-proofing the charging gap between 3.3/6.6 kW/h and 50 kW/h? (120-200 kW/h if including Tesla's SuperCharger stations) Charge Stations shouldn't be like cell phones; needing replacement with each EV generation! (Paddles anyone? ;)
     
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  12. Small nit... but since that's Brian's domain...

    kw/h is a meaningless unit of measure. I believe you mean to just say kw.
     
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  13. Yea. But a 50KwH charger is a 20-40K$ piece o0f hardware. Who is gonna put them up fir free? But the five minute swap-station that the leaf could have had was spurned by Nissan and the public. So now you have it, range anxiety at its worst. In Israel as long as BP operates, there is none.
     
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  14. Yes yes Yuval, we get it that you like Better Place. Now, don't you think it's hypocritical to suggest that battery-swap is The Solution, while raising concerns about the cost of quick-chargers? Or that somehow only the former effectively extends EVs range?

    After you add the batteries it needs to keep, a swapping station costs 20 to 100x more than a quick-charger (Nissan/Sumitomo units are 15k$).

    Sure swapping is faster if you need to add like 50+km (for shorter extensions it's the other way around), but as B P found out (and IMHO Tesla also will if they ever go beyond the demo stage) the amount people are ok paying to save 10 to 20 minutes, especially with shopping/fast-food etc nearby, may well be just too low.
     
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  15. In California, the Public Utilities Commission has a regulation that states only utilities can charge for electricity by the kWh of use. This means that re-sellers must charge a flat rate and not by the electricity used. I'm not sure if other states regulate in this way, but that is why California charge stations have a flat rate.
     
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  16. Good article, thanks Antony. The list on PuginCars could have saved me a few minutes when I once contemplated leaving a nasty-gram or not... in the end I took a deep breath and toned down my note.

    What ticked me off one day was when a plug-in Prius was parked in that spot in the morning, not plugged in. All EV spots were taken, so I parked elsewhere and monitored online so I could plug in the minute someone left. An hour later, a spot opened up but the Prius was still there. I plugged in next to it and left a note. Came back to unplug my Focus two hours later when charging was almost complete. The Prius persisted. Turns out it wasn't moved for the whole day. I called our commuter services to report this. Haven't seen the Prius since.
     
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  17. I think this is going to be an issue more and more. Cars using the "Electric car charging" spots as "Electric car parking" spots. There should be signs or something saying to only park while actively charging.
     
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  18. I haven't been ICE'd yet, but I just got my volt a week ago. My rule of thumb, if the car in the spot is actively charging, don't mess with it, you're messing with other people's property and they were there before you.

    You don't deserve to go first due to the car you drive just like I don't deserve to cut in line at the bank because I'm running late for a meeting.
     
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  19. that is not a good comparison.

    the bank is there to serve each customer on a first come, first serve basis.

    this is not the case for the plugs. certainly, it was not placed there for any ice.

    but i do not think that this will be a serious issue in the future.

    as cd stated, it is a sign of range anxiety, most of the time.

    even today, that is not common amongst the totality of ev drivers.

    it is more expensive to charge somewhere other than home, so even today, i dont think most ev drivers use them.

    and as batteries continue to improve and evs become more well known to the population, the less desire owners will have to plug in somewhere other than home.
     
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  20. First off, every public charging station I've used so far has been free, and I've only been going a week in my volt, and I live in Boulder, so I might not be the norm.

    Second, I don't see how charging stations can be anything other than first come first serve. This is assuming we're talking about EV's actively charging, and not idly parked, or ICE parked. Unplugging someone else's car while charging is tantamount to minor theft. You're taking something from them that they didn't give you permission to take.
     
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  21. nothing i posted even remotely hints that i was advocating unplugging someone's car.

    i simply said that your bank comparison was full of holes.

    i sincerely hope the charging stations are not "free" - cuz that means the ones who dont use them are paying for the ones that do.

    which is not at all the message that we want to get across.
     
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  22. I'd love to have a sign on "Electriquette" to post at the superchargers in Seattle. The most annoying thing is people who charge to 100% (anything over 80% take forever) and then leave the vehicle. I've only seen other Leafs at the supercharger on Capital Hill and most of us stay close and use the Leaf App so we know when it's done. There have been others who park and disappear for a couple of hours. Or hey, at least leave your cell phone number so someone can txt you and ask you to move to a regular parking spot. Sometimes the wait is 5 vehicles.
     
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  23. Where is that 2-5 minute swap station when you need it?
     
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  24. Yuval: We get it. You're a Better Place supporter. Enough.
     
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  25. I just had a Leaf owner pull the charger cord from my Volt yesterday before it was fully charged. I had gone back to move the Volt based on when it would be fully charged. I left the Leaf owner a note with my name and phone saying that it was poor etiquite to disconnect. I did not receive a call apologizing.
     
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  26. Which is why the Better Place connector cannot be disconnected without the Better Place card. But you guys did not think Better Place was such a great idea and it folded up in California.
     
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  27. Better Place was never a good idea. They went out of business in California for a very good reason, nobody wanted it. That's how the free market works when you can't secure a monopoly.

    Please give it a rest.
     
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  28. I don't see a simple way for strangers to use chargers competing for a limited resource without conflict. What if all the cars were Leafs...then who goes first? What if one of the Leaf owners had to return home to take his wife to the doctors earlier than what he originally thought? Does he get to jump ahead in line or would that be wrong?
     
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  29. Did we ever have gas station etiquette? This is a temporary problem created by users. Being ICEd is one thing, but arguing a amongst EV drivers is silly. Plan your trips. Prepare for the worst. The private and public charging world doesn't owe you anything. Some people are nice and some are not. No matter what kind of car they drive. :) Proper signage make this better.
     
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  30. Yes, we do have gas station etiquette. Don't park at the pump if you're not pumping. When your done, move out of the way... don't make everyone wait while you pick up a twelve pack, squeeze ketchup and relish on a shriveled up hot dog, and take a dump. Most importantly... no smoking!
     
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  31. This is a small problem making big news. Too distracting.
     
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  32. It's big news if you can't return home. But I think your lack of understanding lies with where your viewpoint is: Your a Volt owner, not an EV owner.
     
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  33. The thing is; someone who purchased a plug in with some type of range extender wants to be gas free just like pure EV owners, but don’t want to risk being stranded. Just because someone spend the extra money to help eliminate range anxiety and to have a more versatile vehicle shouldn’t give them any less priority than the person who chose a $199 lease and has essentially a niche vehicle for grocery running around town. Nothing is wrong with using a Leaf, or similar vehicle, if you recognize its limitations and don’t have to count on free charging in order to get home.
     
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  34. @Douglas Kerr,

    Feel free to call a tow truck for your so called "EV".

    If a Volt owner is try to save gas by charging, then you are doing the same thing by NOT calling a tow truck.

    You have NO more right to that charging station than any other plugin car.

    It is your choice to buy that substandard and limited BEV. You could have bought an excellent BEV called Tesla S.

    Give it a rest. Your view doesn't help the EV community.
     
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  35. when we look at intent, the bev should have the highest priority. the intent is to give evs the ability to get charged. it absolutely should not be free.

    but an ice has absolutely no authority to be there. and since a hybrid uses gas, with only a 30-mile motor, it is not designed to be nearly as electric.

    therefore, its authority to use the plug lies somewhere in between an ice and a bev.

    while bev owners went all electric, and you chose a substandard car that can only go 30 miles per charge, it is you who needs to live with that decision.
     
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  36. No, there should be NO PRIORITY (hope you paid attention EV, that's how you type with capital letters). You have it all wrong. The Leaf is not superior to a Volt simply because it's all electric. The Volt won't leave you stuck after 70-80 miles, it's the BEV owners that need to deal with their decision to buy a car that is limited, and now think they are entitled to priority.
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  37. sorry, the whole reason for the plug is to charge an electric vehicle. the more electric it is, the more it validates the original intent.

    people that bought a volt did not buy an electric vehicle. they were not comfortable with the range. fine.

    but dont act like your car deserves the same priority as a true ev, when it is only partly an ev.

    you simply lose that argument, hands down.
     
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  38. there is no enforceable solution that would work, regarding priority.

    the only thing that will work is to do as xi stated - charging for kw and then for time.

    such that people will be financially motivated to use the plug only when they really need it.

    once this is done, and people cant use the taxpayer to charge their vehicles, they will revert back to charging at their home, where it is cheapest.

    and the existing plugs can be used for those cars that really are stranded.

    these plugs are not gonna be a big part of the future.

    batteries will tend to make them more and more obsolete.

    and drivers will become better accustomed to their evs, such that they wont run out of charge any more than they would run out of gas, today.
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  39. "you simply lose that argument, "

    By what merit? That BEV owners are the only one paying for the charging stations? Last time I looked, the intent of the DOE funding is for ANY KIND of electricification. NOT your kind or my kind but any kind.

    Your elitist view doesn't help the EV community.
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  40. " that bought a volt did not buy an electric vehicle. they were not comfortable with the range. fine."

    By your stupid logic, anyone who didn't buy a Tesla S is stupid since they didn't have enough range. Is that the case where the Leaf owner whine about the range where his car couldn't get him to the museum and back?

    Well, in that sense, any BEV without enough range for your need is NOT a good EV...
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  41. The rule to charge "only when needed" now seems to exclude all plug-in hybrids and even a Tesla. It even seems to exclude BEVs if they have enough charge to get home, which I would guess is most of the time. How often does a BEV owner drive off counting on a public charger to get home? Perhaps I'm a craven coward, but I do it only when I must, which is almost never. Simplify the rules - use a public charger to charge, or park somewhere else.
     
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  42. Well, Some BEV elitists think the they own all PUBLIC L2 charging stations...
     
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  43. Been ICED all the time which is why i gave up on away charging and swapped batts upon entering the city so as to be fully charged rather than look for a post. As EV's become the norm you be asking yourself where is that swap-station you thought should go bankrupt.
     
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  44. I really don't know why you're accusing us of bankrupting your beloved Better Place. I don't remember them even being available in the US.
     
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  45. Even superchargers are too slow at 1/2 an hour. The EV can only succeed with battery swapping. That's why Tesla is working on it in a serious way.
     
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  46. Jack, You are wrong, I'm afraid. A/ Most car users only do 35 miles a day - so it'll work for them. B/ Within a few years fossil fuel is going to so expensive no-one will be able to afford it and the only viable alternative *is* the EV! So you are stuck with it either way. Best you start getting used to the idea.
     
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  47. i have to laugh at all this better place and battery swapping - what a joke.

    i said it straight from the get-go that better place was never gonna make it in the long-term. simply cuz battery improvements will render it obsolete.

    turns out that it never made it in the short-term, either.
     
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  48. First of all, the "need" based priority is full of BS. It is your choice to buy a BEV that has limited range. So, if you plan a trip more than your BEV can provide, then call a freaking tow truck when you need to.

    Second of all, "hogging" the spot while NOT charging or after it is full is wrong. Move your freaking car when you are full.

    Third of all, do NOT disconnect other people's plug regardless of what state the car is in. You have NO right of doing so.

    Fourth of all, everyone who is willing to share should have a contact number left on the dash so you can be contacted to share the plug.

    Lastly, the ONLY way to solve this in the real world as EV popularity increases is to charge a fee based on KWh AND the time occupied.
     
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  49. I do agree that people need to move their cars when they are full. I also think that everyone should list their contact number, that is the right thing to do (until we get to the point where there is a plug at every parking spot).

    I disagree with you on the disconnecting comment. If it's a PUBLIC charger and the car is done charging, I think they should be unplugged. Ideally by the owner, but if the owner does not take care of that responsibility, and someone needs the charge, they should be free to unplug the hog. If I was charged, I would not want to deny someone the public charging. I would have no problems if they unplugged me and charged up (but I leave a sign and number so they could call me).
     
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  50. First of all, there are plenty of public resources. If they plug it in, then they need it. Plenty of EV have thermal battery management that will extend the battery life in extreme hot or cold climate. By disconnecting them, YOU ARE DAMAGING their cars.

    Just b/c Leaf has NO way of cooling their battery while disconnected, it doesn't mean others don't.

    So, you shouldn't disconnect other people's connection.

    Sure, I agree that hogging is wrong. That is why there should a be contact info. But "forcefully" disconnecting other cars is WRONG on EVERY LEVEL. (Unless the owner already gave you permission).

    It is an issue of liability.
     
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  51. I completely agree with the "don't touch other people's property" No touchy!!
     
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  52. Hi Mittar,

    I think this is part of the confusion. We are talking about public charging stations here right? A public charging station does not belong to one person, it's for the public use (if this conversion is about public chargers.. let me know if I'm wrong here). If a person is done charging (including myself!), does not leave a note or contact number and does not move their car, someone should absolutely unplug them if they need the charge. So they should touch away and put that public charger to use (and not leave it plugged into a fully charged car).
     
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  53. Do you move other people's car from a public public spot just b/c you feel that they have over stayed the duration?

    Do you tow other people's car out of certain "public spots" just b/c you feel that they are wrong parking there? NO. You don't. You either call an authority who does that or you let the owner correct it. You don't enforce the rules.

    NOBODY GAVE YOU the RIGHT to enforce rules on sharing public resources.

    Plus, if anyone is doing that to my car, I will take them to court. It is a liability issue. My insurance is NOT covered for that kind of activities...
     
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  54. And can I ask who gave you the right to monopolize a public charger all day? A bit of a selfish attitude I think. I certainly would want to allow someone else to use the charging station as soon as I had the charge I needed.

    It's this kind of attitude that really does the electric vehicle movement a disservice. I think being courteous and sharing the now limited public chargers is the best way to transition to EV's.

    If it was your EVSE or cable, I would not touch it. But if it's the public charging station I don't see that as 'your car'. Plus if you just leave a note or number I will just call you before it even gets to that point. Isn't that the common sense solution?
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  55. "And can I ask who gave you the right to monopolize a public charger all day? A bit of a selfish attitude I think"

    I don't support hogging public resources. But the fact is that any plugin person has just as much right as the next person.

    The same thing happens to other public resources. Whether it is a park bench or a seating area in the public area. It is their seat, you can't physically move them.

    Plus, there is a liability associated with it. What if the public EVSE handle is jammed and you had problem removing it and you end up damage the J1772 port on the car by accident? Are you willing to pay for the damage?

    If the owner leave a note. Fine. I actually agree with sharing. But if they don't, you shouldn't move it.
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  56. @prberg,

    Just so you know. I have at least 2 experience where my Volt get unplugged by a Leaf and a i-Miev driver where I didn't get a full charge yet.

    Luckily I had enough gas in the tank to make it home...
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  57. There are more comments in this thread
  58. It's interesting how different the LEAF and Volt owners view the issue of priority. I agree people should move their cars when not charging and not unplug someone else's car, unless their is a note allowing it.

    I suspect the range will increase in the next few years, making this less of a problem.
     
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  59. Or increased charging station.

    The main issue is really "FREE" charging stations. Once they are fee based, only those who really need it will charge at it and "hogging" situation will be greatly reduced.

    $$$$ will make it happen. All those problems are caused by FREE charging station and TERRIBLE BEVs with limited ranges...
     
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  60. Whats needed is a common sense approach
    1) ICEing should be ticketable (nee towed with aggression. Sorry strong feelings on this)
    2) ALL EV's need access but type of motivation should have priority...
    a) Plugin's (primary and not back up)
    b) plugin Hybrids, EREV's (leafs, Volts etc.)
    3) Allotted time frames (e.g. free standardised time for say a 50% charge after
    this a nominal charge for additional time (i am thinking 2 points here. First
    this will make people aware of others and second it will help with basic up
    keep and expansion)
    4) Think of others and MOVE your car as soon as possible and charging is
    completed if you plan an extended stay
     
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  61. It is easy to solve this problem.

    Get rid of ALL FREE public charging. Make it both FEE and Time based. First 4 hours are charged by KWh and after that charge by hr at double the rate for a 6.6KW charger.

    It will get rid of all hogs and those who don't need a charge.
     
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  62. I think all plugin owners believe that "hogging" is wrong. As far as how to deal with hogging, I believe the opinion varies greatly. I don't believe in "tempering" with other people's charging process. Especially with the current heat waves, many plugin cars depend on the plug to keep their battery longivity in check. If someone unplugs my car, then I will be pissed. Don't be surprised that your limited BEV end up NOT getting a charge b/c I feel the need to charge my car again.
     
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  63. Also, when you move the plug, the car in the existing spot will be viewed as a car "hogging" the spot without charging...
     
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  64. As far as priority goes, I think most EVowners agree that we are all doing this to avoid gas usage. PHEV/EREV owners have just as much right as BEV owners. BEV owners made a choice by NOT having their own onboard extender. But they can call a tow truck. PHEV/EREV owners made a choice by paying extra for that "onboard tow truck" service.

    However, some BEV "elistist" feel that since they bought a substandard BEV with limited range, then they deserve to have the charge. Many BEVs have DC quick charge stations that is exclusive to BEVs that NO PHEV/EREV owners will ever use. So, why do you think you deserve the exclusive priority over regular L2 charger too? I think PHEV should get priority on L1/L2 charger since that is all they got.
     
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  65. XL, sorry but your frequent, gratuitous bashing of EVs, the Leaf, non-GM plug-ins like the Prius and/or their owners, doesn't add anything useful to discussions -- and, frankly, is getting tiresome.

    Please realize that not everyone has the same needs, preferences or means, and while there may be plenty of good reasons to buy a Volt, there are also plenty to prefer another vehicle. People who do so deserve the same respect you feel you're entitled to.

    Also, even though I don't think this is relevant to charging etiquette, the Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid does come with a DC quick-charge port (CHAdeMO).
     
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  66. How is your first 2 paragraph related to the charging etiquette discussion?

    As far as "bashing" goes, it should be noted that those so called "BEV elitist" should be bashed. They are NOT beneficial to the EV community and they are trying to draw a line between the plugin community.

    I bash Leaf b/c I don't think it is a good BEV. You don't see me bashing Focus EV, E-Rav, Honda E-fit or Tesla S, do you? As far as hybrids go. I bash Prius b/c it has terrible performance. Aren't those facts true? Maybe it is enough performance for you but those numbers are real, aren't they?

    Well, last time I looked, Outlander PHEV isn't available in the US. If it does, it will add even more fuel to the fire for those BEV elistist...
     
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  67. @Just O,

    BTW, none of my post is really bashing of any EV or Leaf in this comment section. The only bashing is the wrong attitude of the BEV elitist. In fact, the only reason you get all sensitive about it is the fact that you are ONE OF THOSE so called "elitist" or you are super sensitive to the word "substandard" and "limited range". That is a FACT. If limited range is NOT a problem, then we would have any arguement of the "need" of public charging station to get home...
     
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  68. "My experience underlined an important point. EV drivers need to realize that showing up in your plug-in hybrid doesn't entitle you to park in an EV space because it's convenient. "

    Your experience only underlined two things.

    1. we need more infrastructure.
    2. your plan that depends on poor infrastructure sucks.

    BEV owners need to realize that just b/c you made a bad plan, it doesn't mean everyone else has to vacate their spot just so you can make up for your poor planning.

    If you need to go somewhere farther, make sure your route include a DC quick charger along the way.

    Your poor planning doesn't make it an emergency in my part.
     
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  69. I think users should have the ability to use an online system to reserve parking spots. Doing so would give BEV owners the ability to better plan long trips.
     
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  70. Okay, that is even worse on a "Free" network. Since there will be BEV owners who need the station in a "pinch" and can't use an open station just b/c some jokers forgot to "cancel" their reservation. Also, unless this is a FEE based system, I don't see how it can justify the reservation.
     
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  71. Don't forget that a lot of people use the mains to pre-condition their EV's. Unplugging them will stop this useful EV advantage. If you don't care then fine leave your note as others have suggested.

    What we *really* need is to stop getting so hung up on expensive and complex EVSE's. A simple, cheap, weather-proof socket is all that is needed for the typical EV to charge over the 8 hours or so it is sitting in the typical work/station commuter car park. This would make it feasible to provide every parking spot with its own socket and prevent all this argy-bargy. OK, street parking is another matter but in time this too can be similarly addressed. Penalising ICEVs using very limited parking spaces will do nothing to encourage EV use.
     
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  72. Sorry, your attitude is considered as "selfish" by the BEV elitist group.
     
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  73. Here's an idea:

    The 'next' charging standard should allow 'daisy chaining' of many cars off of one charge point.

    ie. each car should have an 'in' and and 'out' for power, so that if the cars are sitting there for hours (such as at disneyland) then the cars' and the chargepoints' smarts can share and decide which car gets charged and when...

    (and then of course, the argument becomes 'who's touching my car???')
     
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  74. May be a parking meter at the charge station, when the meter expires you could be ticketed or maybe even towed.
     
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  75. That's exactly the way it works with the charging stations at Boston City Hall. They are regular metered spots at $1.25/hour. You get to park your (x)EV for up to four hours, as opposed to the regular two-hour limit on the meters. If you go past four hours, you get a $25 ticket. Very effective. Charging is free, time is not.
     
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  76. Talking about "etiquette"? I know plenty of BEV owners who doesn't charge at home and using public or work charging stations as their "exclusive charging" source so they get to commute for free. Then when they don't get a charging station spot, they claim that they need the charge so the can get home...

    How does "sharing" help with any of those "Free Charge Grabbing" BEV owners? It doesn't.

    Charge $$$ for charging in all public stations is the ONLY way to solve the overcrowding issue.
     
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  77. And I know this for a FACT in some of the SF Bay Area high tech companies that some of their Leaf and Tesla owners end up parking at FREE work chargers all day when they only live few miles away and other plugin co-workers end up NOT getting a charge at all.

    Believe me, as the plugin market grow, this will be a REAL problem. The so called "sharing" and "caring" approach will NOT work in the long run. The only way to make it work is to charge $$$ for it. You can hog it all day long if you are willing to pay $$$ for it.

    In fact, just look at the IKEA charging station in Emeryville, ever since they start charging for it, the "hogs" are gone. Plenty of spots for those that really need it.
     
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  78. I agree that it's wrong for a electric car owner to use a public (or work) charger if they only live a few miles away. They certainly shouldn't be hogging the spots all day and should move their cars for others to use. That's just common courtesy (which it seems less and less people have these days).

    I agree that charging for the use of the EVSE will partially solve the problem. But I don't see ANY companies charging while the car is plugged in and not charging. So until that happens, it seems that unfortunately we will still have charging station hogs who won't be motivated to move their vehicles (hence we need to learn to share the currently scarce resource of public charging stations)
     
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  79. It wasn't a problem when the EV community was fairly small, it was more a ICeing issue. Now, it is becoming a PHEV/EREV vs. BEV or "need" vs "hogging" issue. As the popularity of the EV grow, it is inevitable that things like this happen.

    The only way to solve this problem is by having 1 outlet per spot or charging a fee for it.

    Work place is a bit better to work around since most people work there and there can be "club" setting up with "sharing" apps installed. But it won't solve the "charging only at work" people from abusing the program.

    With all that said, I believe this is a good problem to have. After all, it only means that there are more plug in cars on the road than ever before.
     
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  80. Agreed! It's a good problem to have and I guess not too surprising that there would be some pain associated with a whole new transportation technology (well I guess it's not all that new, but just new to the mass market).

    Once we get past the early adoption phase I'm sure the system will work itself out.
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  81. @Antony,

    I think you should change your title of the article to "Etiquette For FREE PUBLIC Electric-Car Charging: Debates Heat Up Over Who Goes First". Because there are no etiquette problem for the fee based charging.

    "Hogs" will always show up to the free stations and use it all day long.
     
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  82. Fee or not, there is an etiquette problem. That Prius plug-in I talked about above was at a fee-based station. The "Hog" just didn't plug in. Still an etiquette issue. Happened to me twice so far on a fee-based station.
     
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  83. That should be a "ticketable" offense. Those are NOT plugin "parking" spot, they are charging spot. City can make a lot of money for those violations.

    I agree that NOT plugging it in at a charging spot is worse than "ICEING".
     
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  84. Hmm... Interesting... I like the idea for a free 2 hour charge, then a fine, say... $50-$100 per hour for any plug-in vehicle. Added perk: a 6% discount on shopping on purchases over $50.00/linked to charging under 70 minutes. We are considering paying for a charger at a store I work at.
    40% chance it will happen so all this is just wishful thinking.
     
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  85. Why do so many people assume that people that drive a volt have the option to drive home on gas?
    Just because someone is driving a volt doesn't mean they actually carry the gas to get home with them at all times.
    What is going to happen when the i3 comes out with an optional range extender? Will they get treated as a PHEV/ERSV or BEV?
    WHat happens when someone assumes the owner ordered the optional range extender and they unplug the car thinking the i3 does't need to charge, but the car isn't range extended?
    When I look at different reports of average distance traveled before charging the Leaf and Volt owners charge after about the same 35 miles. Why cant people just get along?
     
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  86. That is why I have been bashing those "BEV elitist". They assume they "deserve" more just b/c they have a BEV...
     
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  87. if you want to take advantage of things for an electric vehicle, then make sure that your car is an electric vehicle.

    a volt is a gas vehicle that can run on some electricity.

    it simply does not deserve to be treated equally with a bev.

    on the other hand, it deserves to be treated preferentially to an ice, because it does use some electricity.
     
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  88. I think the Volt should be treated like a BEV. If you look at what Volt owners are using for fuel as a percentage of miles traveled you could conclude that they are mostly BEV. We are all in this together. The way I see it, the first one who plugs in gets the station until maybe 15-20 minutes after your cell phone says you are charged then you move it. If your battery pack is conditioning your pack when your pack is fully replenished then you should relinquish your spot or at least place a note giving permission to unplug if a charge is needed to get the new "parker" home. Chivalry prevails. We simply have to work in a strongly social manor to make electric driving viable. "No, after you" should be the motto. Communication and generosity.
     
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  89. Well, that is NOT typically the way BEV elistist think...
     
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  90. @EV Enthusiast,

    What is the reason beside your statement that Volt is a gas car? Some Volt owners run 100% on electricity when used on commute and only gas when they need long range travel. Doesn't most BEV owners do the same thing (beside Tesla)? They typically switch to their "other" gas car and use that for long range travel.

    "it simply does not deserve to be treated equally with a bev."

    You are right. It should be treated better than a substandard BEV. Because those substandard BEVs are only there to reineforce all the EV myth...

    There are plenty of Volt that does 90% of its miles in Electricity.

    All the gas that I have ever burned in my Volt is when I need 100 miles more in range. No BEV under $40k can do that today.
     
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  91. what dont you get about a gas car ? it has a gasoline engine in it.

    it can only get 30 miles a charge. the bev can get 100.

    so the volt owner is gonna require more charging, due to the decision he made about getting a car that only has 30 miles of charge, as opposed to 100.

    the point of these plugs is to encourage electric driving by encouraging people to get electric cars.

    getting a volt does not bring us out of the gas mode nearly as effectively as a bev. therefore, the priority of the bev.

    the bev owner made the sacrifice of range, in order to become electrified. the volt owner did not.

    i am fine with your decision. but you simply need to realize that you do not have the same priority as the bev owner does.
     
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  92. the one point in which we are in agreement is that the only way to solve the issue is to make the plugs for pay. and i do not mean a flat charge. as you stated, kw and time. this will keep others from simply using the plug for free instead of charging at home.

    this is my last post on this thread. i am not gonna debate anymore what is extremely obvious.

    you have some sort of love for gm and the volt that goes beyond typical reasoning - so it is a waste of time trying to have a rational discussion with you on the subject.
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  93. "it can only get 30 miles a charge. the bev can get 100."

    So, Volt only get 30 miles a charge and the crappy BEV can get 100 then?

    Your attitude is already an elitist view.

    Regardless what the range is, electric mile electric mile. By your logic, anything that is NOT Tesla is crap then? Silly!
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  94. "so the volt owner is gonna require more charging, due to the decision he made about getting a car that only has 30 miles of charge, as opposed to 100."

    Name me 1 BEV that is EPA rated 100 miles range that cost less than $40k MSRP. Just name me one.

    If you are using "potential" miles, then Volt can be as high as 60 miles for some owners.

    If you can't name 1, then you should change your name from EV Enthusiast to "EV rookies".
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  95. There are more comments in this thread
  96. "the bev owner made the sacrifice of range, in order to become electrified. the volt owner did not."

    Your view is twisted. Volt owners by charging as often as they can is doing exactly the same as BEV owners who try to stay on EV miles. The only difference is calling a tow truck vs. using gas. Personally, I would rather burn the gas than letting other BEV owners call tow truck. Mile for mile, that tow truck will burn even more gas. However, a BEV owner shouldn't assume that they "deserve" to have the priority.

    I know plenty BEV owners who "leech" off the public stations. So, there is NO way of knowing who "really deserves" the stations.

    Just b/c you drive a BEV doesn't give you the "automatic" right to it.
     
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