Kurt has been fascinated by anything with wheels and a motor for a long time. Growing up, he spent his spare time turning wrenches and pumping gas in... More
While purchasing a hybrid vehicle is a relatively easy decision these days, the purchase of a plug-in hybrid can be significantly more difficult to justify, thanks to its greater expense.
In terms of the Toyota Prius, a 2013 Prius Two with no options can be configured with a sticker price as low as $24,995, including destination charge. The least expensive Prius Plug-In, meanwhile, would sticker at $32,760, also with the destination charge factored in.
While the Prius Plug-In comes as well-equipped as a Prius Three, we’re more interested in comparing the least-expensive variant of each. The $7,765 difference in price between these models would require a significant amount of battery-powered travel (or a hefty rebate) to justify the expense.
Now, a new microsite from Toyota called “Everyday Drive” hopes to help demonstrate the benefits of the Prius Plug-In. Promising “an online experience showcasing new levels of fuel efficiency,” Toyota hopes to illustrate the advantages of its plug-in variant.
To begin, users enter starting and ending addresses, then select the preferred unit of measurement (EU L/100km, U.K. mpg, JP km/L or U.S. mpg). Selecting “start” shows appropriate background scenery via Google street view as the car virtually “travels” in EV mode.
Presumably, the site factors in variables such as speed limits and terrain, all of which will have a significant impact on the range in EV mode. When the batteries are depleted, the program switches to Hybrid (HV) mode for the remainder of the virtual journey.
At arrival, Everyday Drive shows a Google street view image of the location, before spitting out data on distance traveled, fuel efficiency (in desired units) and carbon dioxide emissions.
Is the microsite, available here, ideal? No, it’s not, since it doesn’t show comparative savings versus a standard Prius (which, honestly, would be easy enough to calculate manually). It also requires Google Chrome to run, rendering it useless for users of Firefox, Safari or Internet Explorer.
Still, it’s a step in the right direction, as it forces drivers to think about the implications of their daily travels. It may not be optimal, but it’s better than nothing at all.
Can't decide if that is really cool or completely useless.
I put in my commute (which I am very familiar with, of course) and watched the video. Between the high speed and distorted nature of the images, I couldn't recognize anything.
So as Art, perhaps this is good, but as Knowledge Transfer, not so good.
Xiaolong, I can tell you from experience that keeping the Prius Plug-In in electric mode, even without the heat on, takes delicate throttle inputs, akin to driving a Dodge Viper in the rain. With slick tires. On greasy pavement.
It's possible, but challenging and not entirely recommended in traffic.
That is the case in my experience as well. (I actually drove it for a while).
My two co-workers who have the PIP also complained about it as well (they were the early adopters who paid $40k for their fully load version b/c that is all the dealer offering at the time). They can hardly keep in EV mode with the small hill by my work place.
Now that winter is here in Northern California, temperature is in the low 40s and they are NOT getting ANY PURE EV miles anymore even with short commute of 3 miles and 11 miles. Once the heat button is pushed and ICE comes on and stays on for the trip...
I am still getting 31 miles EV range with my Volt even with the heat on AND 75mph+ hwy cruising.
"With PiP, I can do 3-4 chore trips with one charge (11-12 EV miles)."
Tell people the truth, you did it without ANY HEAT ON in those EV miles. Don't trap others into it. My two coworkers are already complaining about it... They did NOT KNOW about it.
So, PIP is designed to make their owners trade off between having cold feet and EV miles.
My gas engine has come on a few times due to heat request. I have measured the amount of gas it takes to finish the warm up. It took less than the size of two eggs (111 ml).
That's like doing engine/fuel maintenance to prevent gas going stale, when I need heat.
128 MPGe on electric miles and 55 MPG on gas miles, are the average from the past two months, including 2 hours drive in Nor'easter snow storm. Let me remind you that PiP is a midsize with a flat floor cargo. Sweet!
What's your averages for both fuels in your compact 4 seater?
Let me remind you that my compact 4 seater is Safer, more fun to drive and have way better and more useful EV range. It is also more efficient overall in trips less than 75 miles than your boring, less safe transportation box.
FYI, sporty cars such as Mini and CR-Z are all 4 seat compact. There is a reason for "sportiness".
Feel free to drive your boring, unsafe box. I will have fun with my Volt. Just make sure you don't get into an frontal offset crash...
I have yet to see any numbers to show the C-Max Energi is faster than Volt. Hybrid is potentially faster since it uses its far more powerful engine and lower weight. But there are no handling numbers or braking numbers to show that it is better.
Fun usually comes from handling and response of the powertrain. PIP doesn't even come close.
If you think PIP is "fun" to drive, then I got nothing else to say to you. You are just a Volt hater at this point with your statement.
If you think Prius is fun to drive, I got a Ford Model A to sell you for "fun"...
But I do agree that C-Max is designed to be more powerful, faster and more fun than Prius/PIP. Therefore, it is understandable that it gets less MPG than Prius.
Also, from a "stability" point of view and weight, there is "very" little evidence that taller C-Max can handle any better than the Volt. But it is certainly more possible than your Pip.
If I had to choose between the two. I would definetly go with the C-Max Energi over your Prius plugin. More fun to drive, more power and cheaper..
Yup, the fun comes from the ability to use either fuel or a blend of both, like driving maual transmission. I control which fuel to use in various driving conditions.
It is no longer about straight line acceleration, cornering or the response from it. It is also about uphills or downhills, city or highway section of your trip. They become the 3rd and 4th dimensions in the "play". All those conditions plays a role in deciding which fuel (gas or plug electricity or both) I use.
Plugin hybrid like Volt that isolates gas and plug electricity is no fun to me. Ford Energies is more fun because it also allow blending.
Well, that explains everything. You sure have a "twisted" sense of "fun".
How is "blending" fun if it doesn't add anything to your driving dynamic? Personally, I think it sounds terrible with your CVT whine. But if you think that is fun, then suit yourself. You are just a "freak" of nature then...
Xiaolong Li, ever wonder why Prius owners say their car is fun to drive yet traditional auto reviewers said it is boring?
Now, you know. PiP just have more EV miles and higher EV speed (62 mph) for the fun. That opens up new dimensions and it is a game changer. I have done 6 short chore trips on EV in one day with 2 charges. They would have been MPG killer if I had no plug.
Again, I would appretiate if you don't pass on your judgement or label me, especially on something you just found out you didn't know you were unaware of.
So, you are calling "operating" something with gas/electric blending as "fun". Yet it has NOTHING to do with "driving" as in "driving" dynamic.
I don't need pass judgement on you. You already made that clear. Just b/c you don't understand the "meaning" of driving, it doesn't mean you can't view it as fun. I finally understand how you are.
I guess if somebody makes a hybrid lawn mower for you, you would view it as "fun" too...
City around town trips - EV miles
Longer Highway trips - HV gas miles
By deduction, low gear = EV and high gear = HV. You shift gear depending on the driving conditions. PiP shifts and blends (intimately variable) between the two fuel sources. That's what I love about it.
This is the result of that synergy: 264 Wh/mi on electric miles (charging loss included) and 55 MPG on gas miles.
Well, let me help you with some technology terms with your lack of understanding of "DRIVING".
Calling "blending" fun is as silly as calling operating a lawn mower fun. Your PIP's atkinson engine is useless at low RPM b/c it lacks torque. So it has to use electric motor to compensate its performance at low speed.
Well, I guess you don't understand driving at all. Silly for me to even argue with you. B/c I have understood enough about you and your technical skills. Like I said, have fun with your slow, boring, less safe transportion box. Feel free to stuff 5 people into it. It is still one of the worst handling and braking transportation box...
fully agree - Boston area, 30 degree average actually exceeding that 128 MPG and 10mile EV range.
No I don't crank the heat. Its reasonably warm leaving the garage and I suspect from Li's constant heater warnings that its more of a California issue as in I'm so cold duuude !
Only thing I will agree w Li on is - fun driving but thats not why I bought a PIP. Its fun to me to not need gas. Also I paid 28.3k for a new 2013 PIP - if price was not important a Volt would've been considered
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I put in my commute (which I am very familiar with, of course) and watched the video. Between the high speed and distorted nature of the images, I couldn't recognize anything.
So as Art, perhaps this is good, but as Knowledge Transfer, not so good.
What it doesn't mention is the fact that once the heat is demanded, the EV miles becomes impossible.
It's possible, but challenging and not entirely recommended in traffic.
My two co-workers who have the PIP also complained about it as well (they were the early adopters who paid $40k for their fully load version b/c that is all the dealer offering at the time). They can hardly keep in EV mode with the small hill by my work place.
Now that winter is here in Northern California, temperature is in the low 40s and they are NOT getting ANY PURE EV miles anymore even with short commute of 3 miles and 11 miles. Once the heat button is pushed and ICE comes on and stays on for the trip...
I am still getting 31 miles EV range with my Volt even with the heat on AND 75mph+ hwy cruising.
With PiP, I can do 3-4 chore trips with one charge (11-12 EV miles).
The acceleration in EV mode is surprisingly strong. I find myself jumping out of the light faster than what others normally accelerate in NYC.
Most of my trips are in EV. Since they are very short, they only make up 40% of all miles.
The amazing part of it is, the results. I am averaging 128 MPGe on EV miles(charging loss included) and 55 MPG hybrid miles.
Tell people the truth, you did it without ANY HEAT ON in those EV miles. Don't trap others into it. My two coworkers are already complaining about it... They did NOT KNOW about it.
So, PIP is designed to make their owners trade off between having cold feet and EV miles.
Greatest "scam" ever...
That's like doing engine/fuel maintenance to prevent gas going stale, when I need heat.
128 MPGe on electric miles and 55 MPG on gas miles, are the average from the past two months, including 2 hours drive in Nor'easter snow storm. Let me remind you that PiP is a midsize with a flat floor cargo. Sweet!
What's your averages for both fuels in your compact 4 seater?
FYI, sporty cars such as Mini and CR-Z are all 4 seat compact. There is a reason for "sportiness".
Feel free to drive your boring, unsafe box. I will have fun with my Volt. Just make sure you don't get into an frontal offset crash...
The point is that less seat usually correlates with "sportier" offering.
BTW, I have fun driving my PiP every single time. Don't you dare pass on your judgement/definition of fun or boring on me or others.
I have yet to see any numbers to show the C-Max Energi is faster than Volt. Hybrid is potentially faster since it uses its far more powerful engine and lower weight. But there are no handling numbers or braking numbers to show that it is better.
Fun usually comes from handling and response of the powertrain. PIP doesn't even come close.
If you think PIP is "fun" to drive, then I got nothing else to say to you. You are just a Volt hater at this point with your statement.
If you think Prius is fun to drive, I got a Ford Model A to sell you for "fun"...
Also, from a "stability" point of view and weight, there is "very" little evidence that taller C-Max can handle any better than the Volt. But it is certainly more possible than your Pip.
If I had to choose between the two. I would definetly go with the C-Max Energi over your Prius plugin. More fun to drive, more power and cheaper..
It is no longer about straight line acceleration, cornering or the response from it. It is also about uphills or downhills, city or highway section of your trip. They become the 3rd and 4th dimensions in the "play". All those conditions plays a role in deciding which fuel (gas or plug electricity or both) I use.
Plugin hybrid like Volt that isolates gas and plug electricity is no fun to me. Ford Energies is more fun because it also allow blending.
How is "blending" fun if it doesn't add anything to your driving dynamic? Personally, I think it sounds terrible with your CVT whine. But if you think that is fun, then suit yourself. You are just a "freak" of nature then...
Now, you know. PiP just have more EV miles and higher EV speed (62 mph) for the fun. That opens up new dimensions and it is a game changer. I have done 6 short chore trips on EV in one day with 2 charges. They would have been MPG killer if I had no plug.
Again, I would appretiate if you don't pass on your judgement or label me, especially on something you just found out you didn't know you were unaware of.
I don't need pass judgement on you. You already made that clear. Just b/c you don't understand the "meaning" of driving, it doesn't mean you can't view it as fun. I finally understand how you are.
I guess if somebody makes a hybrid lawn mower for you, you would view it as "fun" too...
Low gear - Low speed
High gear - High speed
Low speed - City around town
High speed - Highway
City around town trips - EV miles
Longer Highway trips - HV gas miles
By deduction, low gear = EV and high gear = HV. You shift gear depending on the driving conditions. PiP shifts and blends (intimately variable) between the two fuel sources. That's what I love about it.
This is the result of that synergy: 264 Wh/mi on electric miles (charging loss included) and 55 MPG on gas miles.
http://priuschat.com/attachments/image-1-gif.44985/
Calling "blending" fun is as silly as calling operating a lawn mower fun. Your PIP's atkinson engine is useless at low RPM b/c it lacks torque. So it has to use electric motor to compensate its performance at low speed.
Well, I guess you don't understand driving at all. Silly for me to even argue with you. B/c I have understood enough about you and your technical skills. Like I said, have fun with your slow, boring, less safe transportion box. Feel free to stuff 5 people into it. It is still one of the worst handling and braking transportation box...
No I don't crank the heat. Its reasonably warm leaving the garage and I suspect from Li's constant heater warnings that its more of a California issue as in I'm so cold duuude !
Only thing I will agree w Li on is - fun driving but thats not why I bought a PIP. Its fun to me to not need gas. Also I paid 28.3k for a new 2013 PIP - if price was not important a Volt would've been considered
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