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When the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid arrives at dealers in late December or early January, VW will become the only carmaker offering both a diesel engine and a hybrid model of the same compact sedan.
Why two such different approaches?
Because, Volkswagen says, the audiences for the two cars are actually very different--and there's very little crossover from one to the other.
As part of its launch event last night, Rainer Michel, vice president of product marketing and strategy for Volkswagen of America, discussed the two different sets of buyers.
Using data from research firm Strategic Vision, Volkswagen looked at buyers of the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Toyota Prius, and the Honda Insight.
The company found that almost half the Toyota Prius buyers considered no other vehicle at all. Of those who did look at alternative choices, none had considered the Volkswagen Jetta TDI.
One-third of buyers of the diesel Jetta TDI, however, considered no other make than Volkswagen. And a mere 5 percent looked at the hybrid Toyota Prius as a competitor.
As Michel's presentation noted, "Jetta Hybrid will allow VW to attract new customers who don't consider TDI as a legitimate rival to hybrids; those customers equate hybrid with eco-friendly."
Moreover, the Jetta TDI and hybrid buyers differed demographically as well.
Buyers of the three competitive hybrids were just 51 percent male, 78 percent of them were married, 89 percent had no kids in the household, and their average age was 61.
Jetta TDI buyers, on the other hand, included far more men than women. Fewer of them were married, but more of them had children in the house, and they were fully 17 years younger, with an average age of 44.
Michel reiterated several times that the new hybrid Jetta was not a competitor for the longstanding and much-loved Jetta TDI diesel sedan.
Instead, he said, the new model would bring new buyers to the Jetta model, those who would not previously have considered buying a Jetta because they didn't feel it had sufficiently high fuel economy.
The company projects that the new Jetta Hybrid will comprise about 5 percent of overall Jetta sales.
Last year, Volkswagen sold 150,000 Jetta sedans, meaning hybrid sales next year could number roughly 7,500.
What do you think: Is Volkswagen right? Are diesel buyers and hybrid buyers two distinct groups?
Leave us your thoughts in the Comments below.
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1. Toyota buyers are getting old, that is why there is a Scion brand. In the case of Prius, it is even more so.
"Buyers of the three competitive hybrids were just 51 percent male, 78 percent of them were married, 89 percent had no kids in the household, and their average age was 61."
2. Toyota Prius buyers are "blindly loyal".
"The company found that almost half the Toyota Prius buyers considered no other vehicle at all."
3. Diesel fans usually care more about performance than just MPG like Prius buyers (who don't care about anything except for MPG).
I think VW is right and it is great that it is trying to design cars for all groups.
But for all you Diesel fans out there, Prius emits about 1/3 of the pollution as a Jetta TDI in terms of CO, HC and NOx... For that alone, Diesel will NEVER be as clean as a hybrid.
So, for those people who care about MPG and air quality, hybrid will win out. VW is correct in trying to cover that market segment.
No. You are wrong. And the EPA argument is invalid.
EPA has not disclosed what their testing methods are nor what their process looks like.
How is it that the European testing cycle results differ by as much as 25%-30% from EPA's?
And also how is it that in TDI's case, people are consistently reporting better results than the official EPA results?
And also how is is that Hyndai and Honda have had to retract their EPA based claims of fuel efficiency once people took them to court?
EPA results are garbage. As they say in computer science: "garbage in, garbage out".
The emission is measured at the tailpipe. CARB also designate the emission as well.
You keep mentioned the CO2 emission which is different from the NOX, CO, HC and particulate emission. Also, the emission is heavily dependent on the fuel. In the US, the fuel are dirtier. If you run bio-diesel, then it will be cleaner.
Hyundia cheated their EPA regulated testing. It was found to be "fraud" during the EPA Audit.
In CARB's emission requirement, NO CLEAN Hybrids can meet the PZEV emission regulation. It is the "smog" score that diesel FAIL!!!
Nissan claims that it has developed SULEV-level clean diesel technology (http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/sulev_lcdt.html), so it appears to be technically achievable.
Also, please see my calculations at http://webpages.charter.net/lmar/emissions2012.html to see why I think SULEV or PZEV is not a valid metric in comparing environmental impacts of vehicles with different fuels.
When I nail the gas pedal and all that tree stump-pulling torque pushes me back in my seat at 1,750 RPM, and I still get 42 MPG, that is no failure, that is winning and grinning all the way while I'm UPSHIFTING to pass all the selfish people in the passing lane with their eyes popping when their SUV cannot keep up with my sportwagon!
So, for those people who care about MPG and air quality, hybrid will win out...."
I disagree. "Tailpipe" emissions are only part of the story. Gasoline in highly volatile and as a result, has vastly higher "upstream" emissions of HC (VOC). HC emissions are the primary villain in ground-level ozone ("smog") formation.
Here is what Prius comparing with Jetta/Passat Diesel in terms of Smog rating for cars in the state of CA according to EPA. http://iaspub.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Trio.do
(Prius vs. Jetta TDI vs. Passat TDI)
NOx 0.02 vs. 0.07 vs. 0.07
CO 1.0 vs. 2.1 vs. 2.1
NMOG 0.01 vs. 0.055 vs. 0.055
Smog-forming Pollution:
(pounds per year) 0.99 4.13 4.13
Greenhouse Gases Emitted:
(tons per year) 2.97 4.96 4.96
I will be curious what the new Jetta hybrid would do in terms of smog emission. I am guessing it will be much lower than the Diesel.
Okay, let us assume that your "assumption" is true, which is NOT.
Hybrids have to run constantly at HWY speed, right? Even with 45% hwy cycle, the Hybrid should be at least about 45% of the Diesel emission right? The number are still in favor of Hybrid.
And your assumption is wrong as well since it is tail pipe emission and in CA those Diesels are rated below the hybrid rating in emission level.
That is why so many hybrids use Atkinson cycle engines. It is more efficient, but has very low power and torque. But it is okay since Electric motor will compensate for it.
That would be a viable alternative if it came with a manual transmission and as a sportwagon.
Otherwise - no. Wait, let me think about that some more. No.
As a diesel fan, I can say that I care about all these things, equally:
- performance
- fuel efficiency
- practicality
- handling
- styling
- transmission type
- propulsion type.
But most importantly, as a diesel fan, I refuse to compromise on any of those. With hybrids available on the market, I would have the make compromises I do not currently have to make with a clean diesel vehicle.
To me, that is crucial.
I was curious to read that the average of hybrid ownership is 61. That can't be right or I guess the older folks are more interested in gas mileage than I thought.
Why would you think that hybrid buyers do not average 61?
It makes sense. Old people don't care about "performance" anymore. So the "negative" part of the Prius is NOT part of the concern.
But they do care about "money" since they are usually limited on income and CA gas is expensive... Buying Prius makes sense in terms of "cost saving"...
How often do you see older people drive like me? Almost never. I even know older guys who were "former pilots" from air force drive Prius (I know, that is sterotype since I am assuming that pilot love performance) b/c it just saves them a lot of gas money.
The only time you need the "climbing" power in CA is when you go to extreme south, north or East...
If you just want to cruise around in the SF Bay Area or LA basin, then performance is not critical.
But I agree with you. Personally, I use the "performance" a lot, especially when passing slow cars hogging the left lanes going uphill...
My TDIs have been fun to drive (buckets of torque under my right foot), and I get 600+ miles on a tank of fuel, so I only stop when I want to stop for something.
Supposely a much larger Ford Fusion Hybrid and C-Max Hybrid will get the same 47mpg comparing to the Mini. Also, the larger (than Mini) Prius should be able to do the same...
I can in no uncertain terms say that I hate the current North American car market's lack of options and choices.
I want the same choices as you guys have in Europe here in the United States.
Check it out here: http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/volkswagen-golf-bluemotion-concept/
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079454_vw-unveils-high-mileage-diesel-golf-in-paris-that-the-u-s-wont-get
Diesel engines using compression to ignite the fuel has always intrigued me. Hybrid technology is cool, but I like diesel and chose a Jetta TDI instead of a hybrid. I'll never have to replace batteries either. $$$$
I did that with my Volt that has AT-PZEV emission package. Clean.
That finger tests don't work with NOX and CO emission, those are much higher in Diesel than hybrids.
Yep, Volkswagen is correct. It does not happen often, but on this count, they are right.
If they did bring a diesel hybrid, it would probably be an automatic-only vehicle, a big, big no-no in the clean diesel car market.
Ironically, the hybrid consumes slightly more fuel than the diesel, has slower acceleration, much less torque, and according to the automotive press, costs around $2,200 more.
The Porsche/Audi flywheel hybrid system that has raced with such success seems to have that potential along with supposedly lower initial cost than a traditional battery-electric hybrid.
It never ceases to amaze me what LIARS you Diesel fan-boys are. Diesel refining is 10x worse for the environment than Lithium mining. Don't go spouting your right-wing nonsense that you saw on Faux news unless you can back up your facts. And you know nothing about EVs. They do NOT use coal power, since most charge at night, when coal and gas power down. So, most EVs use NUCLEAR and WIND. And even if they did, so what? That's the difference between a Hybrid driver and a Diesel driver. The hybrid driver would rather "fill-up" with Wyoming coal than Saudi oil; the diesel driver would prefer not to think about these things.
Have an opinion?Join the conversation!