Lithium-ion battery pack of 2011 Nissan Leaf, showing cells assembled into modules
Battery replacement
Sexton then went on to question Palmer about battery replacement, asking what the cost of battery replacement will be for those who want a healthier pack.
Palmer’s answer was frank, yet devoid of concrete costs.
“Our preferred form of purchase is that we lease the car and the battery, which means we [Nissan] takes all the risk,” he explained. “That tells you that we at Nissan are very confident in the level of technology.”
“But there was a requirement from some customers to buy,” he added, pointing out that Nissan had anticipated most customers would lease.
“Seen from Tokyo...the only reason that you’d replace the battery is if there was something wrong with the battery, in which case, Nissan would replace it under its 8-year warranty replacement scheme.”
The concept that someone would want to buy a new battery, Palmer admitted, was something Nissan hadn’t thought of.
“We never imagined there would be a customer, and apparently there is, who would say at the end of 5 years of life, that they would want to bring that state of health of battery back to 100 percent, and therefore buy a battery,” he explained.
“In consequence of that, we’ve never set a price for a battery pack,” he added, promising that he would investigate how Nissan would do that, what the price would be, and if a battery replacement was practical or not.
Palmer also took the opportunity to reiterate Nissan’s commitment to customer satisfaction, promising that where needed, Nissan will offer goodwill actions, including updating battery life gauges, to ensure existing customers are satisfied with their cars.
2013 Leaf, battery upgrades
After dealing with the matter of battery life, attention turned to the upcoming 2013 Nissan Leaf, which is due to launch early next year.
“You’ll see small improvements, both in the area of the battery and in the level of the vehicle,” Palmer promised. “It’s not a revolution: it’s an evolution. For example, the gauge accuracy is addressed.”
When asked if the lower cost battery pack promised for the 2013 Leaf will bring the cost of the car down, Palmer was non-committal.
“Clearly, today, the ability to sell electric cars very much depends on the subsidies coming from the government. And clearly, one of the tasks of the manufacturer, is that we assume that the subsidies will [not] last forever,” he said.
“We have to get our costs under control. We’re preparing ourselves for a day when subsidies will not be available,” he continued. “What you’ll see in the U.S. and around the world is a different model mix.”
“There’s a slightly different change to the lineup. We didn’t overtly do it to bring down prices: we did it to basically see it made in the U.S., reduce our exposure to the Yen, and make sure that the cars are more specifically tuned to local customer needs.”
As for battery upgrades for early adopters?
As with battery upgrade prices, Palmer was unable to say if it would be offered by Nissan, or if it was even possible.
Backward compatibility, and the option of upgrading older Leafs to new battery technology, remained in NIssan’s thoughts, however, he admitted.
“Backward compatibility is always an issue. It’s our desire that we can get backward compatibility,” he explained to Sexton. “Somewhere, what level of change, is still a point of big discussion.”
With one video now filmed, and more on the way, Nissan wants to make itself more transparent to owners and potential buyers of its electric cars.
But do Palmer’s responses impress you, or leave you with more questions? And which questions do you feel are still unanswered by Nissan?
Leave your thoughts in the Comments below.
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1) Offer active cooling of the battery as an option for hot climates. My Leaf battery in Maryland is doing fine at 13k miles, but I feel for the folks in the Southwest.
2) Offer a uniform trade-in value for the battery. No one is going to pay, say, $20K for a battery alone and chuck the old one, but if you already have a Leaf, you trade-in the old battery, which still has value, to Nissan for, say $15K, then get the $20K new one, for a net out-of -pocket of $5K. Nissan might want to consider a special goodwill deal for the initially affected customers, too.
If the life is only 5 years, or if that will be the case for 20% of the owners there, then they may want to pull out of that geographic region for now.
Also, if the high mileage is the problem (even in more temperate climates), what is the expected battery life for someone putting on 20,000 miles per year? Does that also drop the battery life to 5 years? If so, that should be made clear to potential customers.
I think the whole thing is a black eye for Nissan and the EV movement. I just hope other manufacturer don't have similar problems.
I think they have planned for battery replacement but they just don't want to let the news out that the battery replacement is $20,000 (for example).
I think an easy solution is to require a core charge and then of course subsidize the cost if necessary.
One would hope that some sort of battery thermal management system is in the works. I think it was Phoenix Leaf owner Tony Williams who noted that prototype Leafs at least had air circulation fans within the pack, but that these were left out in the production version. That's insane! Nissan should leapfrog the possible reintroduction of cooling fans (which would do little good on the hottest of Arizona days anyway) and simply employ liquid cooling for the pack.
I'd bet that if you drive like an "average" person in Phoenix, your battery will age close to twice as fast as the "average" person in the USA and thus reach 80% capacity after 2.5 years / 30k miles and 70% capacity after 5 years / 60k miles.
The truth is - we shouldn't have to be guessing how fast the battery will degrade in the AZ heat.
Nissan should disclose this type of information to buyers of the vehicle. Especially since it's now clear that AZ vehicles will likely lose capacity at nearly twice the rate of avg.
Usually, the less miles you have, the less "full" charges you will put in your battery, thus longer life...
That is just nature of Li battery.
However, all those degradation will be accelerated under higher temperature.
Here the news in spanish:
http://www.forococheselectricos.com/2012/10/un-ano-conduciendo-un-taxi-electrico.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ForoCochesElectricos+%28Foro+coches+el%C3%A9ctricos%29
The 400 Arizona Leafs are only ~1% of the model on the road worldwide. This would suggest 98% of owners should have little concern. Quantifying parameters specific to kWh capacity of pack over time would ease age related range anxiety.
Either this guy is a great BS artist (likely, given his position) or a complete idiot.
Let’s see…………they create a vehicle that has the potential for an EXTREMELY long service life cycle, due in part to the fact that the IC engine has been completely eliminated. Then, they think nobody would want to BUY one of these and amortize it’s cost over an extended life cycle? And bring it back to 100% battery capacity at some future date down the road. Duh!
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