Early Better Place Customer On Israel Electric-Car Experience (Page 2)

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Early Better Place Customer On Israel Electric-Car Experience Page 2

Brian of London

2,695 views Apr 12, 2012

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Renault Fluence ZE electric car belonging to Better Place user David Rose [photo: David Rose]

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Better Place has not yet opened its network of battery-switch stations to its customers. The firm date for opening all 40 stations is June, and the company says it has advised customers who take early delivery of their cars of this limitation.

The switch stations are now in advanced testing; I've previously been through one during tests.

Aside from the switch stations, customer subscription plans give them unlimited use of the public charging stations that Better Place is already operating in malls and various locations across Israel. Those spots are all relatively slow Level 2 stations, not DC quick-charge stations.

Until the network of switch stations is fully operating, however, Rose can't consider driving 110 miles to Tel Aviv without having to stop at a shopping mall for a few hours along the way.

He's had one problem with his home charging station. On his way back from a trip, Better Place called to say the company wanted to send a technician for a routine inspection of his home charge point. He set a time for the following morning.

When he returned home, Rose found one side of his ground-mounted dual charging post had stopped working. He used the other side, but that failed overnight. Fortunately the inspection visit the next morning returned it to operation.

Rose says he's enjoying the car tremendously: "I get a real kick out of the turn-on beep, and then silence".

He says the car attracts plenty of attention at traffic lights, "especially from children sitting in the back seats of other cars".

He feels duty-bound to pull away quickly to show off the electric car's acceleration, he says, which surprises many.

He's eagerly waiting for battery switch stations to come on line and open up the whole of Israel for him, traveling on nothing but electrons.

Brian Thomas ("Brian of London") emigrated from the U.K. to Israel in 2009. He has placed an order for and will soon own a Renault Fluence ZE sold through Better Place. He owns and operates his own import company in Israel with more than 15 staff. He regularly blogs at Israellycool about life in Israel, technology and business topics.

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Comments (21)

Kent Beuchert Posted: 4/12/2012 11:28am PDT

Rather ironic that Israel has billions of barrels of shale oil, now
very commercially attractive given the high price of oil.

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Chris O Posted: 4/12/2012 12:20pm PDT

Agreed. According to some Israel has the 3rd largest deposit of oil shale in the world and it's reserves could be equal to Saudi Arabia's. Of course getting it out of the ground isn't easy and no serious production is expected before 2020.

Shale oil is always going to be expensive to produce though. Better Place may yet be able to stay competitive.

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Jeff Hre Posted: 4/12/2012 2:20pm PDT

When economists consider the cost of externalities borne by the whole economy, ventures that are commercially attractive for a few players can be economically a poor choice overall for growing the standard of living achieved within the economy. Shale oil could always be exported, eliminating the costs of externalities unfunded by the sector. This would transfer the costs of burning the oil (but not the costs of mining and processing) onto outside economies while retaining the profits. Israel with it's relatively short driving distances would then be able to enjoy all of the advantages of clean, efficient electric propulsion, while exporting shale oil to those with a greater need for it from because of their geography. Yes ironic.

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John Briggs Posted: 4/12/2012 12:24pm PDT

"Controversially, no electric car will be permitted to operate in Israel without this subscription package. Legally, charging electric vehicles from normal domestic electricity supply is not allowed."

Thanks for making this plain and clear. Better Place has been cagey about these issues.

Perhaps in a future post (or maybe you have already made one) you could explain the relative economics of Better Place versus ICE and how much Israel Government subsidy is making this possible and whether or not you think this model will work in the land of $4/gallon gas (rather than $8/gallon).

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Chris O Posted: 4/12/2012 12:55pm PDT

It's all based on tax breaks; Better Place targets countries with huge taxes on gas ánd cars like Israel and Denmark and makes deals with the governments for lower taxes so they can compete. Clearly in Israel they tried to get a complete energy monopoly for EVs by getting home charging banned as well. That didn't quite succeed though. New regulations bar a supplier such as Better Place and Gnergy from requiring that their customers use only their own company's facilities. As a result the Israel Electric Corporation will greatly undercut the rates that Better Place is offering by charging the same rate for charging an electric car battery that consumers pay for their home electricity consumption.

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Chris O Posted: 4/12/2012 1:51pm PDT

....based on:

http://www.haaretz.com/business/israel-to-keep-electric-car-recharging-fees-low-1.418128

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Brian of London Posted: 4/12/2012 11:20pm PDT

I think the whole area is ripe for a full article purely on the economics of the Better Place model in Israel. I will work on something comprehensive. The Ha'aretz article isn't giving a full picture (nothing new there).

But from Better Place's PR the fundamentals of their business is selling miles, a service and a battery lease. The more miles the better. They're not a car company and they profit from the arbitrage between gasoline and electricity when used for transport. They're not going after low milage drivers in Israel: 20,000 kms per year is their lowest price point which is way above average for Israel. It is not reasonable to compare the cost to of a BP subs to buying electricity alone.

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Chris O Posted: 4/13/2012 4:04am PDT

Regardless of economics, I think the Israel case can serve as a warning against initiatives like Better Place that appear to seek to replace Big Oil as transportation energy monopolists. Israel must be the only country in the world where homecharging is banned as a result, in what appears to be a (failed) effort to force EV drivers to sign up battery lease initiatives like Better Place.

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John Briggs Posted: 4/13/2012 4:21am PDT

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. At 20,000km (12,500 miles) per year, BP is setting up a false comparison. They are comparing the cost per electric mile (that you must buy)with the cost per gasoline mile (that you only buy what you need), a la cart, if you will.

Of course, the ecological and energy security concerns are still significant factors to consider in advancing electric vehicle.

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Brian of London Posted: 4/13/2012 7:28am PDT

If you buy an expensive new car, insure it and then sit around staring at it because you can't afford to gas it up then your cost per mile goes through the roof because you divide the depreciation against few miles.

Most people have a realistic desire to travel and perhaps even travel more than they do now.

I looked at the end to end proposition including the essential (in my opinion) lease of the battery. Today I wouldn't buy a $15,000 LiON battery. I also wouldn't compromise on a car without the range to drive to Jerusalem and back and currently nothing short of a Tesla can do that.

I would love there to be other EV's on sale and another competing charge system. I'm going to investigate how real their plans are next week.

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David Rose Posted: 4/14/2012 11:48am PDT

Actually in the case of Israel, Better Place is not seeking nor have they received any government subsidies, the entire project is based upon private capital. Anyone of you is more than welcome to setup an infrastructure to charge my car, no one can stop you from doing it. IEC will not undercut Better Place's rates unless they decide to create a company for a EV charging network, because Israeli regulations still require that EVs be charged on a managed grid.

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Semion Kr Posted: 4/12/2012 11:29pm PDT

USA has huge incentive on electric car and price of cars are very low , more on Better Place USA business plan here : http://youtu.be/PJ3nnr18UEk

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JRP3 Posted: 4/14/2012 7:46am PDT

Pretty telling that they have to outlaw cheap at home charging to allow Better Place to exist. Luckily it has no chance at all here in the US.

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Eric P Posted: 4/14/2012 11:40am PDT

I was shocked to read they outlawed home charging by any other means - completely absurd and monopolistic. Now that my solar panels are up I'm charging my car for approx $25/month. Battery and charging technologies will improve by leaps over the coming years, and we should be very careful to not allow current weaknesses to encourage a new assault on personal freedom via a fresh monopoly! California already has plans to build fast charge stations along freeways soon - I can wait.

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Karin Kloosterman Posted: 4/15/2012 3:18am PDT

What do you mean by no local fanfare? Better Place has invested in PR more than any other Israeli clean tech company I have heard of. I think they burned through their millions BECAUSE they focused on local fanfare and PR and not enough on making the technology cost affordable to the every man.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2012/04/better-place-loses-millions/

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David Rose Posted: 4/15/2012 4:08am PDT

In Israel, the Better Place commercial had a two week run on TV. That is not a significant expenditure when compared to other consumer products. I don't understand the point of making the technology affordable to every person. Just compare the cost of the Fluence ZE to any comparably sized vehicle or hybrids on the market and I paid either the same or a lot less. Yes if I wanted a smaller, less comfortable and less technologically advanced car, I could have paid less, but only on the purchase of the car. Everything else would in the long run cost more.

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Brian of London Posted: 4/15/2012 4:10am PDT

I really shouldn't rise but ....

Please find one other article saying deliveries to CUSTOMERS in Israel have occurred. I couldn't so I wrote one.

Whoever at Ynet (the source of the report you cite) wrote that Better Place "lost" ₪1.5 billion or allowed a translation into English of that term should be fired or at least removed from all financial journalism.

Investments are not "lost" until a company fails and goes out of business. Simple. Before you make money (generally) you invest money. In a big infrastructure project like Better Place you invest a ton of money before you make any back.

Try selling a new product before you've made it: not even Apple can pull a stunt like that.

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David Rose Posted: 4/15/2012 10:51am PDT

What you all fail to see is a tendency by Israelis not to support the local guy who does well, jealousy if you will. As an Israeli myself I can make this charge with impunity but none of you should try it at home. As Brian noted so correctly, the real headline of the Ynet article and that of The Marker should've been "Better Place Invests 1.5B NIS in Developing Worldwide EV Charging Network" but hey that would sound to positive,especially for Ynet. As for banning home charging, this makes sense in Israel, it has less to do with economics than the inability of Israel's electrical grid to bear any additional burden, particularly one that would occur if every Tom, Haim and David would plug in his own EV however he wished.

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David Rose Posted: 4/15/2012 10:54am PDT

The current situation of a managed grid will enable Israel to handle up to 2 million EVs on the road without adding any additional means of power generation. In the case of high demand the IEC can put V2Grid into effect and the Better Place network will assist the Israeli power grid to handle peak demand.

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David Rose Posted: 4/15/2012 10:57am PDT

Lastly a monopoly can exist only if the regulator prohibits the entry of additional entities into the EV charging market. Since the case is exactly the opposite, no monopoly can exist and you are welcome to put your money where your mouth is by creating your own EV charging network. Better Place will not and cannot oppose your efforts.

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jyurow Posted: 4/15/2012 10:45am PDT

Sigh. I would love to have an electric vehicle with replaceable battery as my next car, but seem to be living in the worst possible location to realize that dream. I live in the suburbs of Washington, D.C. So I am 3000 miles away from the SF Bay Area roll out and even farther from Hawaii. I am driving a 2000 Toyota Carolla with about 70,000 miles on it, thanks to good public transportation and many amenities within walking distance from my home. Right now I only see the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf as my choices, both beyond my price range, and unlikely to be "future proofed." The Volt still has a tailpipe and the Leaf has a fixed, not a replaceable battery.

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