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One of the surprise stars of the New York Auto Show media days this week was the Infiniti LE Concept.
The design study for an electric four-door sedan is a close approximation of a car that will roll off assembly lines in Smyrna, Tennessee, in about two years.
And it poses an intriguing question: Could the Infiniti LE be the closest competitor for the upcoming Tesla Model S?
While Infiniti is far from announcing final specs or pricing, the LE Concept is intriguing because it slots neatly into a vacant spot in the rapidly expanding array of battery-electric vehicles on sale or coming to the U.S. market.
Below it, you have the Nissan Leaf, a distinctively styled five-door hatchback which starts at $35,200 for 2012. It's the volume leader in all-electric cars. Then you have the smaller, and lower-volume, Mitsubishi 'i' hatchback minicar, at $29,125 for the base model.
You'll also start to see sales of the Coda Sedan, a plain four-door sedan priced at $37,250 for the base model (or $39,990 for a longer-range model), and very low volumes of the Ford Focus Electric, also a five-door hatchback, at a price of $39,995.
Above the LE Concept is the much-anticipated 2012 Tesla Model S, which is scheduled to start rolling off the production lines in Fremont, California, by the end of this summer.
The lowest-range 160-mile version of Tesla's new model won't be available until sometime in 2013, Tesla has said. But it's on the books and buyers can place reservations, at a price of $57,400.
So let's make some assumptions about where the production 2015 Infiniti LE will sit in the market. We think it might be priced neatly between the Leaf ($35K-$40K) and the Model S ($58K-$78K).
Suppose the LE were priced at $45,000.
Here's how we think it stacks up to the Model S.
Tesla Model S advantages:
- Base model has longer range (160 vs 100 miles)
- Tesla brand stands for all-electric performance
- Tesla owners are acknowledged to be tech-savvy early adopters
- Kid-sized jump seats can be added for sixth and seventh passengers
Infiniti LE advantages:
- Sold by a known brand with 22 years on the U.S. market
- Infiniti's parent company, Nissan, will have sold hundreds of thousands of electric cars globally by 2014.
- Costs at least $10,000 less
- Four-door sedan body style, not a five-door hatchback
As for design, we're going to call it a tie, since we think each car will have its supporters and detractors.
So what do you think? We know this site has many Tesla fans, and we'd like to know how readers think the Infiniti LE would stack up against the lowest-range version of the Tesla Model S.
Leave us your thoughts in the Comments below (and keep it polite!).
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Have an opinion?
BTW I think your hundreds of thousands of Leafs by 2014 are wildly optimistic.
I am amazed at the violently negative reaction the Prius gets just based on its looks. I wonder how many more Prius could be sold if they just offered one that looked nice.
I personally think toyota should have made the prius violently sexy and smooth lined as this is intrega; to the "whole" of what makes a awesome ride just that, why settle for less when you're going green anywho, tesla's roadster delivers on green,, fast, sexy lines, and user friendly, - and over the long hall, ECONOMIC, now if you strapped a boom box to the cars rev meeter and boom !!! You have a fast and loud green battery spending machine. Prius needs to go Omegus (next model)to deliver on whole sell, like a book end.
available. Nissan may have the bigger name as an automaker, but Tesla has far more prestige amongst the electric car set. And Tesla also has close connections to automakers bigger (and far more prestigious) than Nissan.
Current Infiniti models
G25 $32,600-$35,600
G37 $36,400-$51,300
M56 $59,200-$61,700
M35h $53,700
With the M35h being the hybrid. So why should we think the price of the LE is $45,000 when they are already have customers willing to pay $53,700 for a hybrid. What is the chance that the price will be more like $55,000?
Doesn't the history of EV pricing show that they are priced at a significant premium relative to the brand's ICE pricing?
Note also that the $45K is the estimate for listed base price, not full transaction price.
Very few buyers indeed pay just $35.2K for a 2012 Leaf, since the SV models are few and far between. Full transaction price for an LE could be up to $55K depending on options--and I doubt they'll do the same level of discounting on the LE (at least at first) that they do for the G, which is Infiniti's highest volume line.
I'd say that Infiniti is smart enough not to get too close to the $57.4K price of the cheapest Model S, since they know they have a range disadvantage. And they're likely counting on the LE to add meaningful incremental electric volume to the Smyrna plant, so they want to price it competitively.
That's my thinking for saying $45K. Could go to $49K, and I'll be curious to see where it lines up with the Cadillac ELR, which although a coupe is the same sort of idea (luxury model on mass underpinnings):
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065129_cadillac-elr-plug-in-cost-less-than-tesla-model-s-more-than-volt
Never mind this is 2 years -- and probably 50,000 deliveries worth of Model S -- away. I don't see this as a threat to Model S >at all
Consider it a thought experiment. What would the price point of the LE need to be to be competitive with the Tesla Model S? Could the LE be priced the same as the Model S given Infiniti's proven history, or would it need to be price significantly less to make it compete.
The upcoming HVAC improvements will increase the Nissan/Infiniti estimated range. But don't forget the target BEV customer is initially someone who rarely drives more than 1 hour from home and/or has 2 or more vehicles in their household.
The Tesla S NEEDS to have the wireless home charger and an industry standard fast charger I believe this will be far more important than most realize.
I hope the Model S is wildly successful but Tesla shouldn't presume they will be triumphant.
I disagree. Wireless charging is a very expensive way to save a few seconds plugging in. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Tesla offer it as an option.
Fast charging is available for the higher end Tesla Model S. If this is important to you, move up to the mid-range model.
What you don't seem to be getting is that minor annoyances = major bad PR. Making people as comfortable with your product (and price point) as possible = good PR and more success in the market.
Non-standard fast charging ports with special adapters will annoy customers. Using public fast chargers is necessary if customers intend to ever use the vehicle for longer trips.
Yes plugging in isn't that much of a hassle but, the "set it and forget it" hassle free wireless charger can make people much more comfortable with BEV's. No - Oops I forgot to charge last night. No - The wfe tore the charging cable off when she forgot to unplug. (I believe this will happen often with the Plug-In Prius, due to the passenger side charging port)
I have a Hyundia Elantra and its been a great car. I have owned it 5 years now and other than scheduled maintanence "Timing belt changes" the only problem it ever had only had was a thermostat going out on it. I also own a Buick and we have had a lot more problems mechanically with that car then the Hyundia ever has. Hyundia make decent cars and they offer a great warrenty. Over the last 10 years Hyundia has really improved their cars and they are just as good as Toyota and Nissan and Ford according to JD Powers survey.
To answer the original question, Yes the 2015 Infiniti LE is bad news for Tesla I do not think they have deep enough pockets to go into the battery rental business.
It's important because there is such a thing as Market Share.
We already know there is a market, albit small, for EVs.
as long as there is a market (people will buy), i was asking does it really make a difference if the nissan competes with the tesla or not ?
plus, neither car is even ready to be sold, yet.
That said, most people are not us. Look at the Prius Plug In, right out of the gate almost 900 sold in first month. These are people who are mostly loyal Toyota customers, and would not seriously look outside the company's offerings. Toyota is a big successful company, probably with the world's largest group of satisfied auto customers. To a lesser extent, Infinity also has a large group of loyal customers, many more than Tesla will have in 3 years. These people will be happy to choose the Infinity LE over the Tesla, simply because they have a good relationship with their local dealer
range is a non-issue today for the car companies to sell their evs. and it will be a non-issue every year in the future.
the cars will "magically" have enough range to attract enough buyers for the cars at hand.
forget about the tesla - it is only for the wealthy. what they do or do not do makes no difference.
as i stated many, many times before - the evs will have just enough range and just low enough price to sell the current batch of cars.
take that to the bank - it is all you need to know.
we are not talking about AN INDIVIDUAL. we are talking about what it will take to sell the current years cars that have been manufactured.
for those of you who dont want an ev until it can go 300 miles, you will not be one of the early round adopters.
and the car companies couldnt care less. they do not care if john smith buys a car.
every year, the price will come down, and the range will go up to meet the current needs of selling those cars.
at some point, each and every one of us will join the wave of ev buyers.
personally, i have a nice car that does the job, and i only drive 5000 miles a year. i will probably keep my car until it drops dead. so i certainly will not be an early adopter.
everybody has different needs. and when an ev meets our needs, we will buy.
but it is a bit easier to manufacture a million ipods than a million cars. and more people can buy an ipod.
so the timing will be different, for sure.
but we will see that snowball growing. there seems to be over a dozen companies who have or will be putting out their first ev.
so we should see a several hundred percent growth in our supply in this time period.
the more cars they have to sell us, the better it is for us, in terms of features (mostly price and to a lesser extent, range).
with the current limited supply, everyone is gonna make as much as they can WHILE THEY CAN. the price needs to come down, and will come down, as it becomes a product for the masses.
Mark,
!) With BEV's the wait may be longer than you think
2) There is nothing wrong with BEV's being commuter cars. Commuting to work is where the vast majority of miles are spent. A BEV can be the 1st of 2 cars that millions of families will use for the majority of their driving needs. The 2nd car can be a petrol and will most likely get very few miles put on it.
With BEV's the wait until they can approach what a gasline car can do may be longer than you think
There is nothing wrong with BEV's being commuter cars. Commuting to work is where the vast majority of miles are spent. A BEV can be the 1st of 2 cars that millions of families will use for the majority of their driving needs. The 2nd car can be a petrol and will most likely get very few miles put on it.
BTW - I totally agree that asking to plug in you car at your friend/families house will give a bad impression about you and your new BEV.
Have an opinion?Join the conversation!