GM Riles CA Electric-Car World (Again) Over AB475 'Charger Sharing' Ban Page 3
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"Less altruistic" electric-car buyers
Rob Peterson, who works in GM Communications, wrote on a Facebook group for Volt owners:
Today, the EV community is filled with well-intended owners/advocates who are pushing for a faster adoption of electric vehicles, but this community will soon grow to include others who drive electric cars for less altruistic reasons.
You're already seeing dissension among the troops, as owners of pure EVs are pushing to have Volts excluded from public charging as they believe either their EV miles have inherently more "goodness" than those of a Volt or they have specific [knowledge] to understand how much liquid fuel a charging Volt has on board.
Electric vehicles are coming, and we need to be prepared for tens of thousands of electric-car, extended-range electric, and plug-in hybrid owners--some who may not have the same values that those of us in the community share today.
GM's dark fears seem to envision a scenario in which drivers of battery-electric vehicles (like the Leaf) feel free to unplug plug-in hybrids (like the Volt) from charging stations, rationalizing that, "They have an engine to get them home, whereas I'll be stranded if I can't charge."
Under that scenario, Volt owners consistently lose--which would explain why GM wants unplugging anyone's car, ever, to become illegal.
Sexton points out that there's absolutely no indication that this has happened to date, or that it will happen in the future. "There's no reason to believe the vehicle population will ever outgrow the driver population's ability to behave considerately," she said. "GM's entire point of view is based on a fallacy."
And she noted the plug-in vehicle population will grow slowly as a proportion of the overall vehicle pool--slowly enough to let issues be resolved if they arise.
Why did it get so ugly?
But the dispute has gotten surprisingly ugly. In comments on Sexton's first blog post and in concurrent Twitter discussions, Balch said advocates' concerns are "misguided" and an attempt at "spreading misinformation," among other characterizations.
The tone of the discourse seems doubly odd given that GM invited Sexton to be part of its first Volt Advisory Board, followed by an amusing sequence of articles she wrote about pretending to "hide" her Volt to prevent the company from taking it back.
Just six months ago, that got her slammed by some advocates as "in GM's pocket." My, how times change. For the record, Sexton chuckles, she has less vested interest than most of the other parties--she doesn't own a plug-in vehicle.
But to Plug-In America and other advocates, the question has expanded beyond the bill's language to include: Why is General Motors fighting for it so fiercely?
The company has shad some success after three years of wooing electric-car advocates bitter over its crushing of EV1s. Balch admitted that engaging with electric-car advocates is a primary part of his communications role.
Unclear what's to be gained
But battle-scarred advocates say GM is reverting to type--notwithstanding its bankruptcy, restructuring, new management, and the launch of a plug-in vehicle. "The current stonewalling and refusal to engage ... most closely resembles the EV1 standoff," said a frustrated Sexton.
Why that has happened remains very unclear.
When asked why GM is fighting the advocates so strongly, Balch simply reiterated, "We have a good public policy, and we're standing behind it."
GM out on a limb?
But it's possible the carmaker has gone out on a limb. GM may be the only electric-car maker that supports AB 475 as now written.
While Nissan's government affairs representative is away on vacation this week, Nissan said she had already expressed its concerns to Governor Brown's office. The company, said Katherine Zachary, is "looking to fully understand the considerations and nuances of the bill."
And Silicon Valley startup Tesla Motors [NSDQ:TSLA] has expressed its own concerns with the bill to the governor's office as well.
New draft altogether?
On Wednesday, Plug-In America, Sexton, and others met with Governor Brown's staff and were asked to draft an amended version of the law that would address their objections. They did so, and have submitted it for consideration.
We'll keep you posted on what happens with AB 475.
And, tell us, what do you think: Should it always be illegal to unplug an electric car at a public charging station? Leave us your thoughts in the Comments below.
[EVchels, MyChevroletVolt, EVchels]
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Have an opinion?
I think some flexibility is needed and Chelsea's approach is better. If sharing of charging points becomes an issue, it can be addressed later.
GM's defense is baffling. Are they saying this a good law, but if it is bad, you can ignore it at the discretion of parking lot managers? Make something that is workable everywhere.
For everyone that thinks the LEAF should be given preference over the Plug-in Prius, consider that the Prius will only be able to travel home on clean green electricity if it can plug in at work. So I think the argument could be made for the Plug-in Prius being given preference.
For now, let's have an open discussion with our fellow commuters.
In the end, this will probably be a self-correcting problem. I think free access to Level 2 charging is a temporary perk that will fade from the scene if/when EVs become more common, and PHEVs will not be inclined to pay to use charging slots they don't really need, especially if the price exceeds that of gasoline for their 50mpg Prius.
I would also point out that the bill would require the installation of one EVSE per parking space, thus greatly increasing the cost and slowing down the rollout of the EV public infrastructure. Is GM going to pay for the difference?
'GM has said unplugging an electric car is "tampering" and should be viewed as vandalism--like smashing car windows or slashing tires--that carries criminal penalties.'
Now, if and when GM tries to incorporate unplugging into the criminal code as well someday, I would again oppose it. But that's a subject for another story.
For accuracy, I should point out that someone who removes a charging cord is NOT touching the CAR, assuming s/he doesn't close the charging door afterward.
If that charging cord is attached to a public charging station, the cord doesn't "belong to" the car (as it would if it were the 120-Volt charger that comes with the Volt). It is not the driver's charging cable; it belongs to whichever entity installed the public station.
My guess is we should probably not make it illegal, because we may want to put a note on the dashboard to allow people to do that.
However, I must admit that this might be an issue for vehicles using the AC power to maintain battery temperature on zero degree days even after the battery is fully charged. So Shad may have a point.
Clearly GM assumes drivers are inherently going to behave badly. And the proposed AB 475 does nothing to help drivers whose cars are unplugged by random passers-by.
IMHO, this whole unplugging thing is getting increasingly bizarre. Show us the data that there is ANY kind of problem?
And again, nothing in this law requires the EV spot to actually have an EVSE, nor that the vehicle "connected for charging purposes" must be connected to an EVSE. Given that there are scenarios where basic 120v outlets would be more appropriate, the law shouldn't specify that. But while the latest spin is creative, the law does nothing to protect spots for charging, not parking. As long as I'm plugged in, I can stay parked- but not charging- indefinitely.
Here's an idea: Most plug-in vehicles already have a visual indicator of charging progress. Why not standardize and mandate it, so every plug-in shows the same external displays/colors in the same sequence? If SAE can wrangle automakers to agree on J-1772, a single dashboard LED oughta be simple!
Then the issue you raise goes away. Every parking sign could say, "Do not unplug car under any circumstances unless dash light is solid green" (or whatever). Just sayin' ... :)
Installing between spaces would make a lot more sense- someone else could use the charger while you're on your trip, plug you back in, and you could precondition upon your return..everyone's happy, except that it would require a less cynical opinion of your fellow drivers.
http://www.thefutureiselectric.com/2011/09/want-more-ev-miles-from-your-battery-precondition-your-car/
So you would purposely hog an EVSE for hours, even days --although your battery is full, although other EV drivers might desperately need a charge-- just so your Volt won't seem "stuffy" inside when you return? That strikes me as downright rude and selfish.
So much for the "better world" I hoped we were building.
"Admittedly, I do like to precondition my car as much as possible. I agree with you about LAX, which is why AB 475 is written the way it is - to not require it to change its EV charging and parking policy"
To clarify, you make a good point about LAX, and I agree - despite the benefits of preconditioning (as I mentioned in my blog yesterday). LAX is a busy place and has more stalls than chargers. Seems to me it's a good example of where specific policy should be used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqWxB5Ho5cc
Solid green means charging.
My bad. I meant to "thumbs up" your comment, but clicked on the wrong icon. Sorry. I liked your idea.
A far better solution would be for CA to issue EV license plates, or at least EV decals for the plates. This would not only solve the parking/charging problem, but also HOV access, and vehicle registration. Three birds down, one stone thrown. What’s not to like?
The link at the picture below represents what happens FAR more often, and this is why I'm glad AB475 is passing. This picture was taken last Friday.
http://gallery.me.com/victor1970#100026/idiots_in_ev_spots&bgcolor=bl
Unfortunately... this bill does NOT stop that from happening. It only gets YOU towed if somebody does. Yet you're glad about that? Odd.
Please note in the photo you linked that those are two ICE vehicles (NOT "unplugged" EVs), and thus already covered by law to be towed for illegally parking there. Also note that this law will make it necessary to upgrade that site with one EVSE per parking space, rather than letting two EVs share one unit. Otherwise, the unplugged one will be towed.
I suppose that GM will foot the bill for the extra equipment and installation, since they insist on one EVSE per vehicle --whether or not it is charging...?
Unless they were repealed before now, I would assume they're still be in effect and those ICE cars would be illegally parked because they do not have ZEV stickers. Am I wrong?
I also purport that you are skirting the issue by claiming that the parking lot could simply put the EV sign at the designated stall. C'mon: that would NOT maintain the same number of EV spaces that it currently provides. To do that under AB745, additional EVSEs would, in fact, be necessary.
Is GM's goal to REDUCE the number of spaces? If not, will GM foot the bill for the increased costs?
First you state that the ICE examples are parked legally --which is why AB475 is needed. Then you admit that they are illegal --under the 2002 law. And you justify that contradiction by pointing out the particular lot.
Victor did NOT specify that it was a USC lot: he was talking about PUBLIC chargers (his caps), and posted the link to the photo as an example. Our responses were thus aimed at the theoretical situation depicted in that photo.
Do NOT cloud the issue by trying to have it both ways. In a private lot, neither the 2002 law nor AB745 would apply. In a public lot, the 2002 law applies --and AB745 is unnecessary.
It's the idea that we can't use the charger even if the vehicle that is plugged into it is full charged. That is a waste of a charger. I was at LAX and all the chargers were plugged into cars. But a few of the cars were done charging. Why should I not able to use that public charger?
I am not touching that person's car.. just the public charger handle. Also when people leave notes in the dashboard, you can just call the person. That way we are using the public charging infrastructure the most efficiently.
you just got a thumbs down from a gm-troll. i await mine - LOL.
Now what about the guy in the LEAF that absolutely needs that charger. If your Plug-in Prius is there, he cannot charge, and cannot get home. That is bad. But I guess it all depends on the probabilities of that happening. If you think it is likely that a LEAF will need that spot, then perhaps you should not put your Plug-in Prius there.
Well, I don't worry about using the handicapped stall because the probability of a handicapped person needing the stall at the same time is very low.
A correction: The volt's dash light is solid green for charging and blinking green when done charging.
See http://www.evchargernews.com/chargeprotocolcard.pdf
and http://www.evchargernews.com/chargingprotocol.htm
all this recharging talk is simply not gonna be needed. it will be interesting to see if we build a big and wasteful infrastructure system.
After the vehicle is fully charged the owner should, for example, pay 1.5-2.0 times the rate at a normal space. This will help move people along and also generate some income for the municipality.
I know, I know. You don't know when your car will be fully charged. You do have a good idea though and should check back on it. Like others do when checking/adding time to their meters.
Charge and move along is my point. You get a charge but then you have to pay for the spot like everyone else, but more. That vacates the spot for another vehicle to use the charging station.
Only question- if someone explicitly gives you permission to unplug their car, why shouldn't you be allowed to? The protocol of "sharing" has never allowed unplugging under any other circumstances.
About pure EVs having preference, I agree. A BEV requires a charge to get home, a hybrid does not. Who gets inconvenienced more?
Out of curiosity, how should "tampering" be defined? If no damage is done to the car, and the owner isn't deprived of anything of value (eg, being billed for kWhs he didn't get), what substantiates that unplugging a car- which doesn't even require touching it- should be considered vandalism, but touching it as you walk by isn't? (I asked GM too, still waiting for an answer.)
In the instances where charging is monetized, billing stops when the car is unplugged- so that bit isn't an issue.
I don't know if I like much about any of the current or proposed laws. And if there is to be a law, it should be state-wide and not allow parking lots to "opt-out". That way everyone would be able to be on the same page and everyone would better understand how the law is applied in each parking spot.
Actually, having only local laws worked pretty well for years; there's never been any basis for the state law other than anecdotes from a few sites who didn't want to tow gas cars. If there is a state law, it should be more like the 2002 version though- allows PH/EVs, bans gas cars, and creates an identifier for the PH/EVs w minimal downsides. But individual sites should still have customization options to add time limits, etc.
So how do you propose AB475 be constructed instead?
The law could make it illegal for a non-owner to unplug an EV at a charge station _IF_ the EV is not fully charged.
The law could even have wording to require a system to prevent non-owners from unplugging incompletely-charged EVs. For example, one way: have the charge station require that the first person plugging in their EV enter a temporary 4 digit PIN, which would be used to allow them to unplug the EV when they come back to it. Without the PIN, the station would deactivate; this would be posted.
Have an opinion?Join the conversation!