2011 Nissan Leaf vs 2011 Chevy Volt: Strengths & Weaknesses, By The Man Who Owns Both
2011 Chevrolet Volt Vs 2011 Nissan Leaf: 7,000 Miles Later
After several months of using a 2011 Chevy Volt and a 2011 Nissan Leaf as our sole family... Read More
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2011 Nissan Leaf and 2011 Chevy Volt, with charging station visible; photo by George Parrott
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Many comments are appearing on the internet taking enthusiastic positions for either the new 2011 Chevy Volt or the 2011 Nissan Leaf.
It seems most readers are in one "camp" or the other.
In our household, after studying the technical strengths and features of both cars as they moved from concept to production, I ended up ordering...one of each!
We had been driving a 2006 Toyota Prius and a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, enjoying the technology and economy of those designs since mid-2006. Our Prius had around 64,000 miles and the Camry Hybrid had just 40,000, so we didn't need to replace them. But I enjoy new "toys," and cars are almost the ultimate consumer toy.
Our 2011 Volt arrived on January 13, delivered to our house by the Chevy dealer in Fairfield, California, 40 miles from our home. I couldn't find a closer dealer who would sell the Volt at MSRP and order it with the configuration that I wanted. We now have 2300 miles on the Volt, including two road trips of 200 to 300 miles, and considerable general driving.
2011 Nissan Leaf and 2011 Chevy Volt, with roof solar panels visible; photo by George Parrott
Enlarge PhotoOur computed overall gas mileage is right at 107 mpg, which is way better than even the newest Prius might achieve. The Volt has been a true attention-getter in parking lots, and hardly a trip goes by that someone does not remark on it.
The ride and interior is more European than Japanese or Detroit in feel, and the dual display screens are almost hypnotic. The seats are quite comfortable and the optional heating is nice on cold mornings; the range of height adjustment for shorter drivers is much better on the Volt than the Leaf. The GPS mapping appears totally up to date, and the Onstar feature and traffic updates work incredibly well. In the Sacramento metropolitan area, we got the Coulomb chargepoint and installation free with a DOE/Volt program.
On the negative side, the Volt lacks passive locking/unlocking which was standard on our Prius and Camry Hybrids and is fitted to the Nissan Leaf, and it does not have a rear window wiper (which the LEAF includes) for the frequent rainy days here in Northern California.
The 2011 Leaf, which arrived on February 17, being fully electric, has a much larger battery pack and a daily range of nearly 100 miles between charge sessions. We're actually getting almost that with totally local driving, but any freeway time at higher speeds reduces the LEAF range markedly.
Another negative on the Leaf is the smaller range of seat height adjustment for short drivers, along with the frustration that the GPS map software is at least five years out-of-date for our neighborhood. A further frustration for early Leaf adopters is that the "Carwings" service, which is supposed to show charging stations regionally, is not functional at all for the first three months of delivery and is only "promised" to be updated quarterly.
Nissan's "customer service" at the corporate level seems somewhat disconnected from really providing the support advertised for this cutting-edge vehicle.
On the plus side, the Leaf has room for five passengers, and the rear seat is quite comfortable with very good visibility. The proximity locking/unlocking is most appreciated, as is that rear window wiper. I even like the "mouselike" shift controller and the light colored fabric interior.
It would be hard to be a Leaf one-car family, but we will use the Leaf for all our shorter local errands and my wife's regular daily commute. The Volt will complement the total gas-free economy of the Leaf for infrequent longer trips, and for my less regular work commuting.
Switching from the Prius and Camry Hybrids, I project that our annual car upkeep costs (fuel, and regular service) will drop from around $2600 a year to around $300 a year.
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Have an opinion?
Stefan M Posted: 3/9/2011 3:29am PST
If car can go 107 miles with a gallon of gas or diesel it uses to produce the electric energy, your answer is right there.
Hopefully, the masses will have the brains to accept it and get rid of Arab's oil polluted emissions as those cars reduce emission from 70-90%
For a long time the efficiency of a vehicle has been measured in MPG. In fact, that is a big topic of discussion at Green Car Reports.
Now that we have electric cars, we need to switch to electrical efficiency. We need to know how many miles the EV can go per KWH of electricity. After all, an inefficient EV will still pollute the atmosphere, if not from its tail pipe, then from somewhere else. Also, while I appreciate that the author has solar panels. I seriously doubt that they cover the electrical load of the house and two EVs. I know my solar panels would not.
Later
John C. Briggs
George Parrott Posted: 3/9/2011 7:48am PST
Our solar panels produced 1200kW MORE than our house consumed and all that production was a PEAK time and maximum $$ credit back to us. We ended the year with a hypothetical "credit" of plus $438 rather than any annual bill for our electricity use. With "time of use" metering, charging both EVs during the $ 0.06 (or less/kW) midnight to 7 am period, and projecting nightly charging of less than 25kW/night, this comes out to be around $400/year added to our previous year's pattern of use. Hence at least for that projection of added use, we end up still with ZERO annual electrical use charges (though we must still pay a "connect fee" of a bit under $13/month to be part of the grid).
A 37-40 mile range on the Volt appears to be drawing about 13kW to recharge, and the LEAF now records that we are closer to 3.0 miles/kW. Basically it is a wash as to which is "most kW efficient" in terms of our records so far.
My wife is still clearly struggling with "range anxiety," as today she was called to jury duty, and I plotted on mapquest the distance from our house to the county courthouse; it was 25 miles one-way, and she would NOT use the LEAF for that roundtrip. The Volt is much easier to start with, since there is never a worry about being stranded with it.
By you method, one need only pick a period of CD mode only use to get infinite "mpg."
In the alternative, present mpge, such that the electric use is at least accounted for. Some of us lack your solar panel advantages.
We should also lobby the EPA to jettison its arbitrary and meaningless "MPGe" figures. If the car uses electricity I want to know how many miles it goes on a kilowatt-hour, because that's how electrical energy is measured. And those kWh figures should specifically reference the AC input to the EVSE if that's what they are.
George Parrott Posted: 3/9/2011 9:13am PST
I think I have just above answered your "efficiency question." But to be more detailed, the Volt for us is getting between 38-39.5 mpg for it's fuel driving time. I understand your need to know that figure, if you don't have the support of home solar panels. But "time of use" metering for EV households, available from almost every utility, gets the midnight to 7am charging rates typically down to UNDER $0.065 per kW, so a "worst case" charge cost for the 37-40 miles of California driving we are getting with the Volt would be $0.75. It is pretty hard to find ANY fuel driven vehicle today which can transport several people 35+ miles for under 80 cents !
Clearly however, if MOST of one's driving was more than around 60 miles a day, then a Prius would be a better dollarwise choice for daily transportation costs and maybe even for "clean air concerns too." For us, coming from a Prius, there would have been no way, over 2200 miles or so to average 107 mpg with the Prius.
Dave Posted: 3/9/2011 10:45am PST
Seems like purchasing these new cars, no matter how efficient, puts the writer in the negative, environmentally speaking. The environmental cost of their production and shipping has to be taken into account.
Nice effort, though.
That and your 38-40 mpg CS mode should let readers do the math. Your electric cost at 6.5 is far better than I pay and vastly cheaper than some pay.
Most helpful. Happy to hear positive reports. I suppose both up front and per mile cost concerns are not at the top of the list of many early Volt buyers. So, thanks for humoring me.
Keith McCaffety Posted: 3/9/2011 11:29am PST
Rob O Posted: 3/9/2011 12:18pm PST
Also, two does not equal four; he sold two cars to buy two others. He never bought four, other than over a 4-5 year span.
Thanks, George. Have a Volt on order and a LEAF or Focus Electric to follow...?
eric Posted: 3/9/2011 12:45pm PST
Brad Posted: 3/9/2011 2:10pm PST
I can't afford one either but if others that can keep buying, maybe the price will come down.
Also, if your going to complain about the tax credits, go whine to the Oil Companies that get Billions in subsidies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html
Developing and deploying any new technology takes time. But given the huge environmental, political and social costs of burning petroleum, time is the one thing we don't have in abundance. So almost anything that can speed up the arrival of the EV is worth it.
Extraction of the raw materials that make up the vehicle adds another 4 percent, and only 2 percent of lifetime carbon is due to the manufacturing and assembly process. While hybrids may be slightly higher in raw materials and assembly, due to their added battery pack and electric machinery, the difference in overall lifetime carbon between hybrids and conventional cars is negligible.
George Parrott Posted: 3/9/2011 8:43pm PST
There are many, many cars that I/we cannot afford either. I subscribe to Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, and Autoweek and have for many, many years. I "lust" for a Ferrari, but that will never come to a reality, but after 40 years of professorial career (and no kids) there are many "toys" that I/we can afford. Keeping relatively new cars in our garage also frees us from ANY worries about real repair costs, since the cars are in full warranty. ALL of our friends know about my chronic car shopping, and I am regularly consulted for other's car buying and several of our friends and extended family members just wait for us to put our current cars up for sale.
Since our first Prius in 2004 we have committed ourselves to driving as green as possible and to configuring our home to be as green as possible as well. Last year we removed all of our home's outside lawn and replaced it with low water adapted plants and drip watering; we reduced our monthly water use by 70% over the previous year with that change. The house is also solar hot water system equipped and that reduced our annual gas bill by about 50%.
By the way, our major local TV station, KCRA Channel 3, did a 6pm evening news piece on our house and cars last week.
boby Posted: 3/10/2011 4:20am PST
But what gain can we expect on the conventional car footprint face to new EV in the future ? the best case of lagacy car equal to the worst one for EV...
Richard Posted: 3/10/2011 5:32am PST
Conversions can be fun, but OEM EVs are the way to make them happen in the real world.
write Posted: 3/10/2011 6:59am PST
But I'm still happy that the Volt is out there because pluggable hybrids address the range anxiety that keeps so many prospective EV drivers from buying pure EVs.
But once they do buy a pluggable hybrid, most will go for months without running the gasoline engine. They'll suddenly realize that range just wasn't the big problem they thought it would be - especially if L3 charging becomes real. So next time they'll decide to get rid of the engine and buy a pure EV.
The pluggable hybrid is the perfect "gateway car" to the pure EV.
George Parrott Posted: 3/10/2011 7:06am PST
One of THE issues with us to keeping newer cars is SAFETY FEATURES. I have had friends "t-boned" and saved only because they had door reinforcements and side airbags. My wife was read-ended at a stoplight coming at the end of an offramp by a big pickup, without really good rear "crush zones" we are sure she would have been seriously injured. I was the "first responder" at a drunk driver incident where the guy went off the road into a tree and put his passenger through the windshield. The list can go on....
In one of our earlier vehicle shopping times, I really like the then current Acura TL, but at that time, it did not offer side air bags. For me/us that was a dealbreaker; we got the VW Passat for our next car from that shopping.
Besides safety issues when converting an older car, there is all the potential repair and simply wear and tear concerns. Shocks, brakes, steering assembly parts, even the belts and hoses on a conventional car all weaken and wear with time. For at least some of us, these "issues" also offer a rationale for going with a new and "no worry" car over hanging with the older vehicle. Dollars and cents, keeping and converting older cars comes out apparently ahead, but factoring in the "risk" and the personal hassle time....it might not?
Barb Graettinger Posted: 3/10/2011 8:03am PST
Andrew M-C Posted: 3/10/2011 8:06am PST
On another note, I was asked recently if I thought EVs were just opening up a new world of problems. Even charging on the grid, we can assume that charging will be in off-peak hours. Here in Ontario, Canada, we recently had to PAY the US to take excess energy out of our grid and dispose of it as we were over capacity. If most charging happens in off-peak, there's plenty of room for EVs within current infrastructure.
Barb Graettinger Posted: 3/10/2011 8:14am PST
EA Kline Posted: 3/10/2011 8:49am PST
I called three Chevy dealers here in the SF Bay Area and got widely varying & vague responses on when I could get a Volt -- "maybe in July" was about as specific as I could get. Also, none of them could give even the faintest idea of how the $7500 federal tax credit works. Is it a $7500 deduction off of taxable income -- which would result in an actual tax savings of at most around 30% or about $2500 -- or is it an actual reduction in tax owed, which would be a true savings of $7500. "Consult your tax adviser" was the universal response.
Given that this is a huge selling point for these cars, why can't Chevy train its sales people to give a straight and simple answer to this question? I do have an accountant, but it's not his job to sell Chevy Volts.
DR61 Posted: 3/10/2011 10:27am PST
George Parrott Posted: 3/10/2011 10:42am PST
How did you get the credit of $2000 from GM, could you please give the details of this credit how to get it.
I bought Volt in May19th.
Sage Posted: 3/10/2011 1:31pm PST
George Parrott Posted: 3/10/2011 2:16pm PST
I spoke today (Thursday 10 March) with a "East Coast auto writer," and he commented to me that he took one of the early press LEAF cars and ran it with heater on and in the cold of the "Upper Midwest," and he saw a total range of about 55 miles....
Sage Posted: 3/10/2011 10:29pm PST
How does the heater work? A typical car is based off the engine cooling system. Is the Leafs heater basically my toaster? That would explain why the heater sucks down the power.
George Parrott Posted: 3/12/2011 9:46pm PST
The Prius is a bit "light and bouncy" with rough surfaces and freeway speeds; it is not as smooth riding as the Camry Hybrid, but it does still ride quite well, and unless one is migrating from something pretty new and at least mid-size, you probably will think the Prius rides well and quietly (if not really "quietly" then at least rides very acceptably).
We really like our two Prius cars (2004 and 2006) and we promoted that Prius to everybody else in our extended family. In my wife's family now, her Dad has a Prius, and both of her brothers also have the Prius. Doesn't that tell you that we have been VERY impressed and pleased with that technology?
George Parrott Posted: 3/12/2011 9:55pm PST
Well the LEAF would do the job for you, but not leave much room for side trips I suspect. By the end of this year, there are supposed to be numerous chargepoints all through Oregon and Washington, so you might also be able to take advantage of those for some extra range. Even 15 minutes on a L3 charger can give the LEAF about 25 additional miles range, so any available QC charge station would answer your concerns completely. Yes, the range is projected to degrade a bit over the LIFE of the battery, but as far as I can tell now, nobody really knows what that rate of loss will be but estimates have been presented.
The heater is, as you presume, basically like a toaster, so it does drop range by about 10%; I suspect the AC is more energy efficient than the heater, but we have not actually tested that at all.
Barb, NOISE concerns with the LEAF and Volt:
None, really. The Volt is very solid and firm riding on the freeway; we just 30 minutes ago returned from a roundtrip from Sacramento to SF (just over 200 miles total) with the Volt, and enjoyed the excursion to connect with my wife's family there in the "South Bay." The LEAF could NOT have made that trip smoothly with the range issue, but for all of our around town miles with the LEAF, it rides smoothly and there is little "road noise." We used the LEAF to go to dinner in downtown Sacramento last night after my wife had used it for her own daily errands earlier on Friday.
It's all well and good to be green. But it feels like all of us that drove large cars because we have to are scorned. Basically, I think that the physically handicapped are ignored by car manufacturers and that the earth/green-minded, health conscious conservationists look down to us because we drive such huge vehicles. I've/We've been seriously considering buying a large 'converted' van (one of those almost-RV's) for us to use for our traveling about. That way, we would be able to have room for passengers, instead of it being just the two of us.
Any ideas or comments? Please feel free to contact me. Thank you. Have a great day!
Sounds like you might be a PERFECT candidate for the incoming PRIUS V. This new Prius derivative, coming in the next 3-4 months, is an enlarged version of the proven Toyota hybrid with a higher profile and a more mini-van squared off rear. The US version will be a 5 passenger with carrying capacity double the classic Prius. We have gotten a 46" flat screen TV IN THE BOX in the back of our 2006 regular Prius, so I strongly suspect this new PRIUS V would meet your space needs. The projected EPA mileage for this new model appears to be around 40 mpg, so that is better than ANYTHING else that could serve your needs. Freeway speed should be no problem, and IMHO, I would project that keeping your speed to 65mph this PRIUS V technology would likely give you more like 44 miles/gallon or better maybe.
Sounds like you might be a PERFECT candidate for the incoming PRIUS V. This new Prius derivative, coming in the next 3-4 months, is an enlarged version of the proven Toyota hybrid with a higher profile and a more mini-van squared off rear. The US version will be a 5 passenger with carrying capacity double the classic Prius. We have gotten a 46" flat screen TV IN THE BOX in the back of our 2006 regular Prius, so I strongly suspect this new PRIUS V would meet your space needs. The projected EPA mileage for this new model appears to be around 40 mpg, so that is better than ANYTHING else that could serve your needs. Freeway speed should be no problem, and IMHO, I would project that keeping your speed to 65mph this PRIUS V technology would likely give you more like 44 miles/gallon or better maybe.
Thanks
Ed
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